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Childrens rights without responsibilities = mayhem at home and school


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Author Topic: Childrens rights without responsibilities = mayhem at home and school  (Read 1164 times)
Nitpicker1
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« on: March 04, 2009, 09:05:41 am »

Just another useless summit?


Teacher stabbed in run-up to school violence summit
Tuesday 3 March 2009

The classroom knife attack on Avondale College teacher David Warren today took place ahead of a summit to be held in Wellington later this month to address school violence.
Ministry of Education representatives, police, principals and community groups - who all agree current legislation does not deal with the problem - are due to meet on March 16 and 17.

According to Frances Nelson, president of the New Zealand Educational Institute representing 48,000 primary and early childhood teachers, schoolchildren have become more violent in recent years.

"It's about the increase in the type of violence, the number of incidents and perceived threat to the teachers, other staff and students," Ms Nelson said.

Police have said they are being regularly called to schools throughout the academic year to deal with behaviour teachers cannot handle.

Figures released to The New Zealand Herald under the Official Information Act show officers made an average of 1531 apprehensions each year from 1998 to deal with violence, drugs or sex offences at schools and universities. Last year, they made 1658 apprehensions, averaging 32 a week.

The number of calls over violent offences jumped 27 per cent in the past decade - from 869 to 1064.

Total school enrolments rose only 4 percent from 2001 to 2009 and education sector lobbyists have warned the rise in offences is alarming.

Education Minister Anne Tolley said today's stabbing of Mr Warren - when he turned his back on the class to write on a whiteboard - was "quite unusual".

"But the general levels of violence in the community are growing, and perhaps the level of violence in schools reflects that."

She told Radio New Zealand that the summit meeting in Wellington was intended to share good practices that had been developed in schools.

"I think the summit will give us an opportunity to explore what is effective and what are the priorities for further action."

Ms Tolley said numbers of violent offences by students against other students had been relatively stable over the past five years, and there had only been a small increase in attacks on teachers.

Prime Minister John Key told NZPA that he was "very alarmed" that a teacher had become a victim of violent crime. "Clearly it's unacceptable behaviour.

"But we need to understand whether it's an isolated incident out of left field or whether something a bit more serious is going on."

The Wellington talks will consider whether suspending and standing down students is needed to deflate violent situations.

Bob McCoskrie, national director of the Family First lobby group, said recently he was concerned schools were discouraged from suspending or standing down their students but were encouraged to bring in police officers fulltime.

Manurewa High School has had a police officer on-site for nine years, following the introduction of a government scheme to put police in 10 low-decile secondary schools.

The school also employed three social workers, two guidance counsellors, three nurses, a youth worker, a truancy officer and an attendance officer.

 http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/45896/teacher-stabbed-run-school-violence-summit

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Sep 25, 2007
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10465762

Nov 28, 2008
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/theft/news/article.cfm?c_id=344&objectid=10545396

Aug 2008
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/566177




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Magoo
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« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2009, 11:29:24 am »

      On every visit to the supermarket or mall you can find short people who are super brats in the making, running rampant, with no social skills at all and they expect that they can continue like this once they start school.     I put it down to parenting skills and teaching right from wrong, acceptable from unacceptable begins the first day.      A bit like training a dog really.
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« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2009, 12:02:20 pm »

I agree! I have used much the same training methods I used on my cats on my kids with great success.

Sneaking up with a newspaper and making a big noise slapping it with my other hand removes both child and beast from where they ought not be.

...however it might also explain sp2 fondness for cat food as a child  Undecided
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The way politicians run this country a small white cat should have no problem http://sally4mp.blogspot.com/
dragontamer
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« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2009, 01:35:37 pm »

My parents live in front of a woman who has had to go to school for the third time in as many months because of 'behaviour issues' involving her son.  She said to my mother "They" (the school) " are just going to have to change their ways".  No shit...... her son is pulled up on bullying and the school has to change.  I hope her 'or else' involves pulling son out of the general schooling system.  Obviously she can teach him so much better than the rest of us.

My kids have the right to choose not to behave if they so wish.  I have the right to stop any and all pocket money, tv, computer, mobile and phone priviliges.  I have the right to remove from their rooms any and all furniture they threaten to destroy including the door if they slam it or in any other way threaten to damage it.  I have the right to refuse to use my time to run them to and from any event they deem important.  I have the right to go to the bus stop and ENSURE the bus money is put on their card by paying the driver myself.  I have the right to eat the same old boring meals day in and day out and not spend a fortune on the yummy stuff. 

It's not often I have to use my rights.  They learnt pretty damn quick I'm not the most patient person on the planet when someones showing me bullshit.  Funnily enough, none of them lie about the crime either.  They always cop to whatever it was, not because I'm too soft I think, but because the rare time I've caught them out in a lie, it changed the dynamics of our interaction so much they hate it.
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Nitpicker1
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« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2009, 01:36:50 pm »

I agree! I have used much the same training methods I used on my cats on my kids with great success.

Sneaking up with a newspaper and making a big noise slapping it with my other hand removes both child and beast from where they ought not be.

...however it might also explain sp2 fondness for cat food as a child  Undecided

Even a cat uses it's own intuition when raising a litter.

Seems to me parents could be overloaded by sociologistic excesses of information: SP2's fondness for cat food as a child was uninhibited by external education, (after all, it is said that Romulus and Remus were suckled by a wolf) but your inbuilt intuition knows the paper-slapping noise really did not influence the fondness for catfood.
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gladys2
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« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2009, 01:46:35 pm »

The more important issue is getting kids to think and act appropriately for themselves, through good two-way communication. External control don't last, sometimes its an act of faith by parents, that by the time they are acting independently, they have a modicom of reflective ability, common sense, and decency, certainly crossed our fingers with ours, so far it seems to have worked.
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ssweetpea
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« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2009, 02:28:49 pm »

Quote
SP2's fondness for cat food as a child was uninhibited by external education, (after all, it is said that Romulus and Remus were suckled by a wolf) but your inbuilt intuition knows the paper-slapping noise really did not influence the fondness for catfood.
LOL Nits.

No, that was cured by picking up the dish after dinner with the added effect that the cat's ate their meal at one time rather than sampling and coming back later so there wasn't any for rug rat sp2 to get in to.

Most kids have an instinctive desire to please so rewarding wanted behaviour with kind words, hugs and games (positive attention) works like a charm.

Even kids without that instinctive desire to please others can learn that wanted behaviour will get you nice things (a chocolate chip worked well with sp2) and that unwanted behaviour got unwelcome effects i.e. loud noise, having what she wanted removed or being bodily picked up and taken somewhere where there was no fun. However the cause and effect have to be immediate for it to work and the goals easy to figure out. Reminiscent of every dog train program I have ever seen.

However one must start young. The longer it is left the harder it is to get any results.
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Nitpicker1
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« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2009, 04:15:31 pm »

ssweetpea
Quote
However one must start young. The longer it is left the harder it is to get any results.

and there is the crux of the problem.

Once the feral child arrives at school teachers are finding violence has become their problem

Lets get back to my original post, briefly here

Quote
Just another useless summit?


Teacher stabbed in run-up to school violence summit
Tuesday 3 March 2009

The classroom knife attack on Avondale College teacher David Warren today took place ahead of a summit to be held in Wellington later this month to address school violence.
Ministry of Education representatives, police, principals and community groups - who all agree current legislation does not deal with the problem - are due to meet on March 16 and 17.


What do you think will come of this?  A plea for more funding for the already topheavy "stopping violence"  programmes, or will some of those attending have come to accept the views as recently put forward by Judge Peter Boshier? (  http://www.justice.govt.nz/family/publications/speeches-papers/default.asp?inline=are-you-stopping-violence-programme.asp ) or should more attention be given to what Muriel Newman and Stuart Birks http://www.nzcpr.com/ have to say?





« Last Edit: March 04, 2009, 04:23:27 pm by Nitpicker1 » Report Spam   Logged
Crusader
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« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2009, 05:43:31 pm »

Instead of institutions and organisations constantly bombarding kids with what their rights are, how about bombard them with what their responsibilities are.
A mate of mine doesn't give a toss about the anti smacking bill and will still give his kids a smack on the arse for any misbehaving. One of his boys came home from school one day and told him that he was taught that my mate will go to jail if he continues to smack him. My mate handed his son the phone and told him to go and ring the cops then, but that would mean his boy being pulled out of his nice home away from his nice lifestyle to go and live in foster care. His boy got the message.
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Magoo
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« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2009, 06:27:46 pm »

I don't agree with abuse or violence or smacking in anger however I fully support an attitude adjustment as and when required.
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Kiwithrottlejockey
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« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2009, 06:36:39 pm »

Just another useless summit?


Teacher stabbed in run-up to school violence summit
Tuesday 3 March 2009

The classroom knife attack on Avondale College teacher David Warren today took place ahead of a summit to be held in Wellington later this month to address school violence.
Ministry of Education representatives, police, principals and community groups - who all agree current legislation does not deal with the problem - are due to meet on March 16 and 17.

According to Frances Nelson, president of the New Zealand Educational Institute representing 48,000 primary and early childhood teachers, schoolchildren have become more violent in recent years.

"It's about the increase in the type of violence, the number of incidents and perceived threat to the teachers, other staff and students," Ms Nelson said.

Police have said they are being regularly called to schools throughout the academic year to deal with behaviour teachers cannot handle.


So....presumably, due to the fact that the student who stabbed the teacher is an international student from South Korea who is only in NZ to attend Avondale College, this means that the problem in this case was imported from South Korea and has nothing to do with the way kids are brought up in NZ?
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Nitpicker1
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« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2009, 07:31:50 pm »

Quote
So....presumably, due to the fact that the student who stabbed the teacher is an international student from South Korea who is only in NZ to attend Avondale College, this means that the problem in this case was imported from South Korea and has nothing to do with the way kids are brought up in NZ?

PRESUMABLY, the summit to address school violence was not arranged yesterday especially because of the Avondale attack.

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Kiwithrottlejockey
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« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2009, 07:50:26 pm »


No, it wasn't....but the case of the foreign student stabbing the teacher at Avondale College was quoted in message one of this thread, so presumably the author of the thread thought it was relevant to the School Violence Summit? Does this mean that the summit will be making recommendations to the South Korean Government on bringing up children in South Korea just in case they subsequently attend school in NZ and stab NZ school teachers? Or was that comment posted in anticipation of the student being a Kiwi kid?
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Nitpicker1
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« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2009, 08:01:32 am »

Just another useless summit?


Teacher stabbed in run-up to school violence summit
Tuesday 3 March 2009

The classroom knife attack on Avondale College teacher David Warren today took place ahead of a summit to be held in Wellington later this month to address school violence.
Ministry of Education representatives, police, principals and community groups - who all agree current legislation does not deal with the problem - are due to meet on March 16 and 17.

According to Frances Nelson, president of the New Zealand Educational Institute representing 48,000 primary and early childhood teachers, schoolchildren have become more violent in recent years.

"It's about the increase in the type of violence, the number of incidents and perceived threat to the teachers, other staff and students," Ms Nelson said.

Police have said they are being regularly called to schools throughout the academic year to deal with behaviour teachers cannot handle.

Figures released to The New Zealand Herald under the Official Information Act show officers made an average of 1531 apprehensions each year from 1998 to deal with violence, drugs or sex offences at schools and universities. Last year, they made 1658 apprehensions, averaging 32 a week.

The number of calls over violent offences jumped 27 per cent in the past decade - from 869 to 1064.

Total school enrolments rose only 4 percent from 2001 to 2009 and education sector lobbyists have warned the rise in offences is alarming.

Education Minister Anne Tolley said today's stabbing of Mr Warren - when he turned his back on the class to write on a whiteboard - was "quite unusual".

"But the general levels of violence in the community are growing, and perhaps the level of violence in schools reflects that."

She told Radio New Zealand that the summit meeting in Wellington was intended to share good practices that had been developed in schools.

"I think the summit will give us an opportunity to explore what is effective and what are the priorities for further action."

Ms Tolley said numbers of violent offences by students against other students had been relatively stable over the past five years, and there had only been a small increase in attacks on teachers.

Prime Minister John Key told NZPA that he was "very alarmed" that a teacher had become a victim of violent crime. "Clearly it's unacceptable behaviour.

"But we need to understand whether it's an isolated incident out of left field or whether something a bit more serious is going on."

The Wellington talks will consider whether suspending and standing down students is needed to deflate violent situations.

Bob McCoskrie, national director of the Family First lobby group, said recently he was concerned schools were discouraged from suspending or standing down their students but were encouraged to bring in police officers fulltime.

Manurewa High School has had a police officer on-site for nine years, following the introduction of a government scheme to put police in 10 low-decile secondary schools.

The school also employed three social workers, two guidance counsellors, three nurses, a youth worker, a truancy officer and an attendance officer.

 http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/45896/teacher-stabbed-run-school-violence-summit

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Sep 25, 2007
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10465762

Nov 28, 2008
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/theft/news/article.cfm?c_id=344&objectid=10545396

Aug 2008
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/566177






No, it wasn't....but the case of the foreign student stabbing the teacher at Avondale College was quoted in message one of this thread, so presumably the author of the thread thought it was relevant to the School Violence Summit? Does this mean that the summit will be making recommendations to the South Korean Government on bringing up children in South Korea just in case they subsequently attend school in NZ and stab NZ school teachers? Or was that comment posted in anticipation of the student being a Kiwi kid?

As I am the author of this thread, and if you are suggesting that I was unaware of the nationality of the most recently reported out-of-control pupil, you are  wrong. The message was posted on 04-03-2009, 09:05:41, by that time the boy's nationality was widely known. I believe your comment "Does this mean that the summit will be making recommendations to the South Korean Government on bringing up children in South Korea just in case they subsequently attend school in NZ and stab NZ school teachers?" is facetious but perhaps you believe that?

Maybe I am misunderstanding the purpose of your participation in this discussion:   Do you want to debate the title I gave the thread, Childrens rights without responsibilities = mayhem at home and school  or would you care to enlarge the point you are trying to make?
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« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2009, 08:29:12 am »

There will be something more behind why this foreign student stabbed his teacher.

It could be as simple as not liking Mondays but that is unlikely.
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Nitpicker1
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« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2009, 08:49:08 am »

....Some students said racial sensitivity might have triggered the stabbing. "Yesterday (Monday), some kids in that class said (the teacher) must've said a joke about South Korea ― and that guy's from South Korea,'' a student was quoted as saying on condition of anonymity....

Read the comments on this story published in The Korea Times http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2009/03/113_40692.html
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donquixotenz
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« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2009, 08:53:10 am »

So if someone slags kiwi to kiwi should we stab them>>>>>>>>>>??
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« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2009, 01:47:42 pm »

Gee - this particular incident seems to be a lot of assumption so far - Im not sure of the relevance tween the incidence, kids rights and responsibilities/and home and school.

Seems the kid is/was a model member of the home he was/is being hosted in, it appears theres no mayhem there.

The topic of violence in schools may well depend on who you are listening to or wqhat you are reading from, an article recently said violence hasnt risen at all in schools in fact in many cases it has lessened.

Crusader - whatever your mates kid brought home from school about physical punishment on kids and jail sentences for the perpetrator, you can put your money on the fact that the kid either made it up or wasnt listening in class. 

Schools DO NOT teach that - why?  Cos its bloody wrong!!!  And the blabbbing that the uninformed public have done in regard to exactly that, has pushed the hiding of child abuse back to the times of the 50s, when no one spoke of it.

And IMO its possible that this kid lost control, if the teacher was being racial - there is also talk that the teacher referred to the kid mum as a whore.  A kid will defend his beloved mothers honour.  Kids have breaking points, it takes a man to do nothing.
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« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2010, 03:04:36 pm »



Tauranga Police attending stabbing at Te Puke High School
10 May, 2010 - 12:44

Tauranga Police have confirmed that they are speaking to a 13 year old boy after a male teacher at Te Puke High School was stabbed this morning.

Police were called to the school at approximately 11:10am.

It is believed the incident took place in a classroom, and there may have been up to 24 students in the classroom at the time.

The students are being offered support and counselling following the incident.

The teacher is currently being treated at Tauranga Hospital. His injuries are not life-threatening.

Tauranga Police will provide a further update at 2pm.

-ends-

Contact:

Jacky James
District Communications Manager
Phone: 027 215 6870
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« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2010, 04:11:08 pm »

Golly!
These Koreans are everywhere! Roll Eyes
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Crusader
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« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2010, 08:12:25 pm »

The problem is we all consider schooling a right. IMO it is time for a policy change. Teachers have a right to attend a safe workplace and that right should be a shitload more paramount than the right of some bratty kid going to school. Also kids that know how to behave have a right to be safe when they go to school and again this out weighs the little shit kid right to attend school.
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AnFaolchudubh
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« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2010, 09:07:54 pm »

I never had rights as a kid they weren't heard of when I was young, oh you had the right to be anti social but it came with the right to get your arse kicked for being so, and as an adult, like most I have feck all rights as it is!

My wife's a teacher at one of the local primaries, man some of her horror stories about some of the kids at her school.... make your hair curl and turn grey.

No use bitching and moaning people, we  or at least most of you were the ones that let the over PCing of our society happen, we or more to the point you only have yourselves to blame.... hang your heads in shame...

in fact a good spell in the time out corner or on the naughty step my help you think about what you have done!

Thanks for our future guys, you all deserve a DB Roll Eyes Angry
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R. S. OhAllmurain
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« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2010, 10:21:38 pm »

I never had rights as a kid they weren't heard of when I was young, oh you had the right to be anti social but it came with the right to get your arse kicked for being so, and as an adult, like most I have feck all rights as it is!

My wife's a teacher at one of the local primaries, man some of her horror stories about some of the kids at her school.... make your hair curl and turn grey.

No use bitching and moaning people, we  or at least most of you were the ones that let the over PCing of our society happen, we or more to the point you only have yourselves to blame.... hang your heads in shame...

in fact a good spell in the time out corner or on the naughty step my help you think about what you have done!

Thanks for our future guys, you all deserve a DB Roll Eyes Angry

Couldnt agree more.
A great big vote of thanks to all those who advocated the removal of discipline from the schools.  You havn't quite got the society you deserve yet, but its getting there!
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Crusader
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« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2010, 10:46:26 pm »

I never had rights as a kid they weren't heard of when I was young, oh you had the right to be anti social but it came with the right to get your arse kicked for being so, and as an adult, like most I have feck all rights as it is!

My wife's a teacher at one of the local primaries, man some of her horror stories about some of the kids at her school.... make your hair curl and turn grey.

No use bitching and moaning people, we  or at least most of you were the ones that let the over PCing of our society happen, we or more to the point you only have yourselves to blame.... hang your heads in shame...

in fact a good spell in the time out corner or on the naughty step my help you think about what you have done!

Thanks for our future guys, you all deserve a DB Roll Eyes Angry



Great post. It seems all those PC idiots like Sue Bradford have taken a big dump of standards in the toilet of society and pressed the flush button.
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AnFaolchudubh
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« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2010, 12:07:32 pm »

I never had rights as a kid they weren't heard of when I was young, oh you had the right to be anti social but it came with the right to get your arse kicked for being so, and as an adult, like most I have feck all rights as it is!

My wife's a teacher at one of the local primaries, man some of her horror stories about some of the kids at her school.... make your hair curl and turn grey.

No use bitching and moaning people, we  or at least most of you were the ones that let the over PCing of our society happen, we or more to the point you only have yourselves to blame.... hang your heads in shame...

in fact a good spell in the time out corner or on the naughty step my help you think about what you have done!

Thanks for our future guys, you all deserve a DB Roll Eyes Angry

Couldnt agree more.
A great big vote of thanks to all those who advocated the removal of discipline from the schools.  You havn't quite got the society you deserve yet, but its getting there!

That is just the tip of the iceberg in the blackhole of the cause of todays anti-social behaviour. Lets face it it started back in the 60's and we are only really just starting to feel the effects of it now! Now thanks to years/ decades of political vote getting by NZ governments you now have the right to spit out a parcel of obnixous snot nosed brats and expect society to drag them up for you! We now have the right to expect even teachers to do all our parenting for us and expect that it'll all be ok and if not we have the right to blame society for our failings as parents...
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