Beneficiary told job not "permanent" under new law

[Calliope]

A Work and Income office in Christchurch told a beneficiary that a job under the new 90-day probation law was not considered permanent employment, Green Party MP Sue Bradford said today.

She told Parliament the beneficiary's application for relocation assistance was turned down.

Under the 90-day law, businesses with fewer than 20 employees can sack a new worker within the period without risking a personal grievance case.

The Government says it will make it easier for unemployed people to find jobs because employers will be prepared to give them a go.

Unions and the Labour Party describe it was the "fire at will" law.

Social Development Minister Paula Bennett seemed mystified by Ms Bradford's revelation in Parliament.

"It must have happened yesterday because the law came into effect on Sunday," she said.

"If that's a particular case I would welcome seeing it because our whole intention is to help people into work wherever possible."

Ms Bradford later issued a statement saying the unemployed man lived in Dunedin and secured a job in Christchurch.

Work and Income's Linwood office declined his application for relocation assistance on the grounds that because he had been employed under a 90-day probation he was not in permanent employment.

Ms Bradford said the man had wanted help to raise a bond so he could rent a house.

"However, Work and Income did grant him $1050 for his family to live temporarily in a cabin at a camping ground," she said.

"It is ludicrous that Work and Income is prepared to pay for a temporary stay at a camping ground while refusing to help the family with a bond for a permanent house," she said.

"All jobseekers deserve to be treated the same, whether the employment they secure is under the 90-day rule or not."


http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/5364850/beneficiary-told-job-permanent-new-law/

[bump head benny]

So thats Nationals game aye?.....most of NZ has been wondering why they were pushing this caper through the books. Now we know, its a different take on Shipleys term when she hammered the beneficiaries and pensioners, but then it was always expected National would hammer the unemployed, after all they think people are on the dole because they choose to be!!!....never ever admitting that its their rich whuk mates who are laying people off left right and centre. Same old leopard, with the same old spots.
 

[Nitpicker1]

a case of "the more things change, the more they stay the same"?

[gladys2]

Don't blame me, I voted Labour....

[bump head benny]

 

[Magoo]

Mind you this came from Sue Bradford.   Did she ever get anything right?

[bump head benny]

Ran into my step nephew yesterday....17 kicked out of school 2 years ago, on the dole and being sent to farming courses. The thing that sucked was that he was being made to do the same courses week after week!!! Frinstance, week one how to drive an ATV. week 2...how to walk out an electric fence, week 3 repeat the same course he did on week one and do the same unit standards again. week 4 might be something different again, but a few weeks down the line he's repeating stuff he has already done.
He wasnt the only one either, theres quite a few of these young guys being sent by WINZ to do these courses, just so they can hide the true numbers of unemployed. After looking into it a bit it seems that it takes more than 6 months for NZQA unit standards to show up on their records, so what the hell is this caper about? are WINZ  just hiding the numbers and wasting these kids time and potential or what? I can only guess that because it takes so long for the records to show WINZ can get away with doing this. Either that or theyre flunking all the unit standards, but by the sounds of it it a cyclic thing where the same courses are taught over and over....sure as hell mystefies me how they can get away with this? firstly the kids are being put onto courses they dont want to do, then theyre being made to repeat them, wassup widdat crap?

[Magoo]

Morning Benny.   There are lots of youngsters like your lad and there will be lots more unless "they
" something with the curriculum in schools.    Bring back readin' writin' n  rithmatic, get works shops and cooking blocks back, make sports afternoon compulsory and teach the kids to value themselves.   Not everyone of them will be academic and thats a good thing because we need people skilled in using their hands in this country.    There was a day when there was a lot of pride to be had in a son or daughter doing an apprenticeship to become a tradesperson.   Now all WINZ and the schools want to churn out are little clones who are all computer literate and need spell checker.
I have seen countless kids lose hope in the future, say they can't be bothered to go for an interview because they won't get the job anyhow.... defeated before they start.   Our kids need confidence in their ability and how can they get that without an education and how can they get that with the options before them.     Can you tell this is a hobby horse of mine and I speak from experience.  I have teenage grandchildren and also have worked vollie in a high school library for the past 10 years.   Its pure joy to see the achievers but there are a hell of a lot who slip through the cracks.

[Nitpicker1]

Ran into my step nephew yesterday....17 kicked out of school 2 years ago, on the dole and being sent to farming courses. The thing that sucked was that he was being made to do the same courses week after week!!! Frinstance, week one how to drive an ATV. week 2...how to walk out an electric fence, week 3 repeat the same course he did on week one and do the same unit standards again. week 4 might be something different again, but a few weeks down the line he's repeating stuff he has already done.

I'd have thought that if yr stepnephew had any get up and go he'd take a pull on himself and go get a job on a dairy farm, where he'd get plenty of walking out breaks. (Seems he should know how to do that, if nothing else) If he managed to survive the first three months without getting fired he'd get himself out of the groove and then be able to take a step up and out of the groove he's put himself in.

Maybe he needs a KITA rather than sympathy

[Magoo]

You make a good point Nitpicker.   Kids with a bit of intestinal fortitude will make the grade.

[Ferney]

It would be good for a lot of kids if they brought back courses into secondary schools.  I did a commercial course from Form 3 and my parents sent my brothers to a secondary school which doesn't exist now.  Seddon Memorial Technical College in Auk city where they both did engineering courses from Form 3.    It meant we left school with skills that got us jobs. 

On the guy moving from Dunedin to Christhurch.   If you read the full story I think he has been treated fairly.  The relocation grant he wanted for a rental bond was for a house 60km out of Christchurch.  He was turned down because if he lost the job it would be difficult for him to find other employment because of the the 60km.  I wondered where the bond was from his previous rental.  Did he rent in Dunedin or what?     Rent a house in Christchurch.   Does he want to put lifestyle before work ?

[guest49]

I can actually see his reasoning - a house 60k out of town would be peppercorn rental compared to one in the city.
However, I can see the other side - that if he gets kicked out because of the new law, he wouldnt necesserily get work anywhere, let alone locally.

And seeing I am paying for what he wants to do - assurances are good to have.

[bump head benny]

Yeah Nits, youre right, but the sad thing is teens dont have any idea of what theyre capable of, theyve  got no friggin idea about the importance of setting goals, working towards them, and ticking them off once theyve achieved them......even doing simple things like cooking breakfast rather than living on pies and fish n chips?....I had no idea theyd stopped home ec in high schools? I was aware theyve stopped teaching kids to spell now because of spellchecker....to me thats criminal, and yeah its so true that far too many kids are ending up shafted by a system that let them slip thru the cracks, in some cases the cracks were even purpose buuilt for them; i.e high schools expelling Kiwi kids so they can take in hundreds of international students at around $11,000 per student!!! But why should i be surprised? its always been about money....everything is about money, just a damned shame the future leaders of this country are being set up to be whukwits.

[dragontamer]

Home Ec is now called Food and Nutrition.   My son does this course.  The problem is that it is an optional course (neither of my daughters do it) and it is far more academic than it used to be.

We still use the basic mince on toast recipe I was taught at intermediate.  My children were taught the same recipe.  They hated it until Mr Mac taught them it in class, now it is a treat they will happily make and eat.  Same with macaroni cheese - hated any and all variations I presented until Mr Mac taught them it.  Mr Mac is a bloody pain in the arse!

I think they need to assess the way the optional courses are taken by students.  Art is all well and good, but without basic living skills the starving artist is a real prospect.  I think besides cooking, basic financial management, gardening, and property management (yes - housework/ maintenance) should be taught.  Far too many of our kids don't seem to know the first thing about turning a vacuum cleaner on let alone running a washing machine or any other thing to provide for their health and welfare and the health and welfare of those around them.

[bump head benny]

About 5 years ago my sister couldnt find the electric can opener...she couldnt figure out how to use the old school hand operated can opener, whuk we all fell about laughing at her.
 
Oh yeah on that last reply when its all broken down to basics.......theres worker bees and theres the rich folks, and theres an education system thats set up to produce more worker bees every year. schools seldom teach financial smarts (unless you plan to sit in an office for the rest of your life doing accounting and managing a bank) Not all kids want to do that, its a fate worse than death to most of em, but financial smarts is THE most important skill set to learn, when I look around me and see how many hundreds of teens are doing drugs, getting rip snortin drunk every week its whuked up man, thats whuked up real bad. what a friggin waste!!

[Lovelee]

Theres a large financial saving involved in this, there will be no more relocation moneys paid to any beneficiary now, cos dont all jobs come under the 90 day law?

My son manages a dairy farm with 4 lads working for them too.  I reckon its one of the best jobs a lad can get, they get free power/rent/meat & milk.  And a damn good pay.  Its a job where they learn multi-skills, and a man cant go wrong with the range of skills, from animals to building/land control.

[bump head benny]

Okay, so now that the unemployed can no longer relocate, what happens if theyre in a town where hundreds are laid off? its obvious a small town wont be able to provide employment for them, and just try living on the dole these days i have and its bullshit. Im just waiting to see what other little surprises Shon Key has in store for NZ? we already know that employers can sack anyone for no reason (90 day limit), the underlying benefit to them being that the employees have no rights to seek unwarranted dismal, plus the employers get to pay minimum wage to adulkts but theyll hire, pay and fire youth rates workers till the cows come home. Things are shaping up exactly how everyone said they would. we all knew National would hammer the unemployed and the workers of this country, they always do.
 

[Lovelee]

I spose they will meet a few hiccups .. but it must be a hell of a saving - I wonder how much they pend in that area?

[ssweetpea]

Far too many of our kids don't seem to know the first thing about turning a vacuum cleaner on let alone running a washing machine or any other thing to provide for their health and welfare and the health and welfare of those around them.

Shouldn't parents be teaching kids to do that?

Then again I have trouble getting sp1 and 2 to change the sheets on their beds. I stick to my guns (I can't lift the mattress on the top bunk one armed anyway) but Mr sp goes and does it for them!

At least I have them all doing the dishes without the aid of a dishwasher.

[dragontamer]

Far too many of our kids don't seem to know the first thing about turning a vacuum cleaner on let alone running a washing machine or any other thing to provide for their health and welfare and the health and welfare of those around them.

Shouldn't parents be teaching kids to do that?

Then again I have trouble getting sp1 and 2 to change the sheets on their beds. I stick to my guns (I can't lift the mattress on the top bunk one armed anyway) but Mr sp goes and does it for them!

At least I have them all doing the dishes without the aid of a dishwasher.

Of course parents should.  The problem is far too many parents aren't.  It's just a small part of the greater picture but is something that is easily addressed.  Someone to say 'Looky here - a challenge not a chore' would help those with parents who would never get off their arse long enough to teach their kids spit, AND maybe give kids who are luckier (even though when it comes to housekeeping they wouldn't see it that way) alternative ways of thinking about the same task. 

Benny is right - the world seems intent on churning out identical worker bees, but the gene pools been tainted and the standard is steadily deteriorating.

[Ferney]

Bradford didn't report all the facts deliberately I expect.
The guy was turned down for a bond loan because he got a job in Christchurch but wanted to rent a house somewhere else.   He could have solved it by renting a house in Christchurch.