Freedom campers' filth offends

[Magoo]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/new-zealand/3544633/Freedom-campers-filth-offendsFreedom campers' filth offends
By CRIS JOHNSTON - The Southland Times
Last updated 05:00 03/04/2010


The Hawea Community Association is preparing to block access to parts of Lake Hawea to stop freedom campers spoiling the area.

The association will pay about $2380 plus GST from its own funds to block entrances with boulders from State Highway 8 to lay-by areas at Deep Bay, the Craigburn and one just north of the Lake Hawea Lookout, all on the western side of the lake, next week.

Association member John Taylor said the association was "fed up" with freedom campers spoiling the area with rubbish.

"We just want to get the message across. Since Christmas these three areas continue to be abused.

"In some places the stench from faeces is utterly disgusting. They are turning into an open sewer pit. How much more shocking does it have to get? This is our way of fighting back," Mr Taylor said.

The lack of local government bylaws preventing freedom camping continued to frustrate the association.

"Why is it so hard to get a solution?

"This is not just a Hawea problem it is a national problem. We do not feel like lying down any more. This is our way of saying it is not acceptable to crap in our yard."

Mr Taylor said the association was aware the three areas were also popular with residents including water-skiers but felt the association had the backing of the whole community.

Walkers, cyclists and horse riders would still be able to gain access, he said.

Land Information New Zealand and the Department of Conservation, which have jurisdiction over the areas, support the protest action.

DOC Wanaka Area manager Paul Hellebrekers said the department had given its approval to the association.

"We have had direct involvement with the HCA on the freedom camping issue. It is a significant issue.

"We are quite happy with the decision," Mr Hellebrekers said. Land Information New Zealand acting crown property manager Phil Royal said: "LINZ as the government department responsible for administering these land areas agreed to this."

Queenstown Mayor Clive Geddes and the council's parks and open spaces director Paul Wilson, a member of the New Zealand Freedom Camping Forum, were unavailable for comment.

Hardly keeping to the spirit of freedom camping when they leave the area unfit for other campers.

[nitpicker1]

Remember this?  Is it the Freedom camping of the Future?
 
http://digital.odt.co.nz/Default/Scripting/ArticleWin.asp?From=Archive&Source=Page&Skin=DEMO&BaseHref=ODT%2F2006%2F01%2F02&ViewMode=GIF&GZ=T&PageLabel=1&EntityId=Ar00100&AppName=1

[Magoo]

Yes I do remember that.        I remember reading about some people attempting to light a fire under a camper parked in a rest area one night but can't remember if it was here or in Australia.   

[nitpicker1]

my post http://xtranewscommunity2.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,7157.0/msg,79798.html was from :
Publication: Otago Daily Times
Date: January 2, 2006
Section: FRONT PAGE It was a big nasty brawl, and I have reason to believe the news item was watered down.

Right on the bank of the river, great fishing... my dear departed and I used it back in the dimdarks, that was a DOC camp with longdrop toilet facities, last time I dropped in  oops, called in , NZMCA had taken it over and had a member acting as manager.

(abridged)

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/new-zealand/3544633/Freedom-campers-filth-offendsFreedom campers' filth offends
By CRIS JOHNSTON - The Southland Times
Last updated 05:00 03/04/2010


The Hawea Community Association is preparing to block access to parts of Lake Hawea to stop freedom campers spoiling the area.

Hawea is a hop step and a jump from Wanaka and Queenstown where camps are overcrowded, so I understand the problem up there.

It can only get worse, imo. 

 

 

[ssweetpea]

I can see the flip side here.

You can readily buy bagfulls of groceries from a multitude of supermarkets but if you don't have an address with a rubbish collection how do you get rid of the resulting rubbish?

In most places the councils really frown on putting bag fulls in the public bins.

As for toilet/sewage facilities. You can usually find the public loos in a small town but not in a bigger one.

Are there maps showing were dump sites for "effluent" are?

I've never seen one, but then I am not a mobile camper either.

I am familiar with long drop bogs and their maintenance. That is something I have learned about in the last few years. Like most other people however I have had to use them on occasion for many more years than I have known how to maintain them.


BTW don't ever put lime down a long drop - the result is concrete which is why everybody is going bags not over digging out the one we use on Rangitoto. Digging a new hole there is not an option.

[nitpicker1]

I can see the flip side here.

You can readily buy bagfulls of groceries from a multitude of supermarkets but if you don't have an address with a rubbish collection how do you get rid of the resulting rubbish?  In most places the councils really frown on putting bag fulls in the public bins.
 

  Use containers and transfer everything out of boxes and packets the day you purchase them - use rubbish bins located in supermarket carparks or you drive into a registered camp, dump your rubbish, clean your teeth and hope no-one took note of your rego as you drive out ?

As for toilet/sewage facilities. You can usually find the public loos in a small town but not in a bigger one.

drive into a registered camp,  do your dump, clean your teeth and hope no-one took note of your rego ? active cctv installed

Are there maps showing were dump sites for "effluent" are? I've never seen one, but then I am not a mobile camper either.

  Yes, there are maps showing dump sites. Many registered camps have them, but those country camps with septic tanks cannot afford to install dump stations because the expense of water reticulation to the site, holding tanks and the emptying thereof involves ongoing maintenance inspection and great unrecoverable expense. Nemmind, pull into a roadside layby, drop your effluent hose turn on the macerator pump and drive to the layby exit before you slide the hose back under your vehicle. Or empty you portapotti over a country bridge into the creek below. 

I am familiar with long drop bogs and their maintenance. That is something I have learned about in the last few years. Like most other people however I have had to use them on occasion for many more years than I have known how to maintain them.

BTW don't ever put lime down a long drop - the result is concrete which is why everybody is going bags not over digging out the one we use on Rangitoto. Digging a new hole there is not an option.

You don't bung a 35kg bag of lime down the pit. You sprinkle a coupla handfulls over the surface after a month or so of regular use - it's total drying out that seems to make the hard pan. So stop peeing in the bushes, pee in the pit if your use of your longdrop is only sporadic. Contents will biodegrade and shrink while you are away.

  If excess water seepage from surroundings sets up anaerobic decomposition, then you have the potential for methane collection. You could perhaps keep a tight lid on the seat, lead the gas off into a mini gasometer, then pipe it to your cooker.  Good excuse not to smoke in the loo.

(An engineering teacher mate of mate of mine got the anaerobic microbes from the gunk at the bottom of a duckpond. Set up a demo methane collection unit,  and cooker for it. Used garden and household waste as fuel.  The demo was successful, but it worked best in warm weather. He eventually sold the unit.) 


 

[Magoo]

Perhaps the people who rent out the campervans need to take more responsibility to inform tourists  what is expected of them while travelling here.

[ssweetpea]

You don't bung a 35kg bag of lime down the pit. You sprinkle a coupla handfulls over the surface after a month or so of regular use - it's total drying out that seems to make the hard pan.

That be the problem, the bach is used fairly contantly (every weekend) in summer but not in winter.

The long drop is basically full.

It smelt pretty good in November but this weekend (Easter) it reeked.

The low water levels in the tanks are partly to blame for that as people are reluctant to chuck a bucket of fresh water out of the tanks down when they leave.

Worse is when some Womble decides to chuck sea water down instead.

So stop peeing in the bushes, pee in the pit if your use of your longdrop is only sporadic.

Digging a pit is not really an option over on Rangitoto, there is very little soil so unless you have a natural hole or a jack hammer the  DOC rangers can't hear.....

I have a sneaky feeling that if nothing is done between now and the next time our group is over there in winter muggins is going to have to assist in a nasty job.

[nitpicker1]

Campers chasing freedom ... near loos
Nelson
Last updated 13:14 08/04/2010
http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/features/3560728/Campers-chasing-freedom-near-loos

  loos with views?

[Kiwithrottlejockey]

A HUGE proportion of the culprits are driving (and sleeping in) rented JUCY vans.

JUCY are the ENEMY.

The good folks of Hawea need to locate the nearest JUCY depot (most probably in Queenstown) and dump human effluent all over their property in an act of retaliation. Perhaps then JUCY might take a bit more responsibility in laying down the law to their customers!

[nitpicker1]

 lol, http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/3601176/Residents-threaten-freedom-campers


Did you know there are in excess of 744 free or real cheap campsites in NZ?

With  400 "Park Over Properties "  offered by private NZMCA members,  where members can park for free and 11 properties owned by NZMCA to develop their own campsites,  plus more than 140 ''deals"  with affilliated clubs (RSAs, Bowling, Golf) where members can use club parking areas in return for increased patronage of their facilities - see p70  North & South magazine  March 2010   added to the more than 140 ''deals"  with affilliated clubs (RSAs, Bowling, Golf)  and approximately DoC  193 listed below, there are in excess of 744  free or supercheap NZ campsites available to those who choose not to use NZ's commercial holiday camps/holiday parks.   There is no excuse for freeloading  'vanners camping under bridges, in city parks and on streets, on roadside laybys or on public beaches in contravention of local bylaws, whether self contained or NOT.

There are  56  DoC campsites in Nelson/Marlborough region, 22 of them in the Nelson area

[guest49]

 lol, http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/3601176/Residents-threaten-freedom-campers


Did you know there are in excess of 744 free or real cheap campsites in NZ?

With  400 "Park Over Properties "  offered by private NZMCA members,  where members can park for free and 11 properties owned by NZMCA to develop their own campsites,  plus more than 140 ''deals"  with affilliated clubs (RSAs, Bowling, Golf) where members can use club parking areas in return for increased patronage of their facilities - see p70  North & South magazine  March 2010   added to the more than 140 ''deals"  with affilliated clubs (RSAs, Bowling, Golf)  and approximately DoC  193 listed below, there are in excess of 744  free or supercheap NZ campsites available to those who choose not to use NZ's commercial holiday camps/holiday parks.   There is no excuse for freeloading  'vanners camping under bridges, in city parks and on streets, on roadside laybys or on public beaches in contravention of local bylaws, whether self contained or NOT.

There are  56  DoC campsites in Nelson/Marlborough region, 22 of them in the Nelson area

Quite.
However, I am on the point of resigning from the nzmca - its no longer an association, its a big impersonal -even autocratic - business that costs me $70 a year plus to belong to.  I rarely receive any benefit from belonging, and in fact am debating selling my self contained campervan as we speak anyway.  I seem to spend more time overseas, than vanning NZ.

[Brownie55]

The farm here in Mayfield is a POP stop....meet some great people and some weirdos.
It is a safe way for people to see the country.
as long as campers have a certificate of containment they can stay here  although there are are several 'long drops' about the property and a gas shower and cooking they can use.

[ssweetpea]

There are  56  DoC campsites in Nelson/Marlborough region, 22 of them in the Nelson area

Not all regions have that many. The only DOC ones (not including ARC ones) I know of in the Auckland region are on islands.

I suspect that the point of freedom camping is just that - freedom.

No bookings to make no sites to pay for, just travel as far as you want and stop.

I see the start of a circular argument here.

[nitpicker1]

There are 14 Doc campsites in Northland region and 9 DoC campsites in Auckland region, some of them on islands, SweetP 

Most of the problems seem to be in the rest of the country. I think the main reason is the perceived evolution of motorcamps to motel units and cabins, with corresponding reduction in numbers of cheaper caravan and tent sites. According to the New Zealand Camping guide more than 190 camps closed during the last 15 years, with no apparent drop in demand.

My dear departed and I were NZMCA members for 7 years when we were doing the gypsy thing, our number - 2026.

Met Andy Anderson who formed the association when he too was living permanently in his old bus, in the early '70s...  that had a deck on top, complete with picnic tables and chairs and a rotary clothesline. We joined the association in the late '70s, when we decided to live our dream before it was too late, and escaped from our permanent jobs.

Since then rental vans and NZMCA numbers have grown enormously, I believe NZMCA is up to 4000 members now, with only half of them self contained. Some can't prove their membership apart from pointing to their wings insignia...it took me some years to realise that many of those vans are sold with the wings still in place, having been a member myself I know that wings are supposed to be removed when membership ceases, or the vehicle is sold.

They use exorbitant prices and crowded camps as a reason to avoid commercial camps. I don't blame them, I avoid that sort of place myself.











 
 

[Magoo]

there is space for you here

A real slice of heaven if I may say so.

[Magoo]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/new-zealand/3625107/Plans-to-curb-freedom-camping

Plans to curb freedom camping
By GILES BROWN - The Press
Last updated 05:00 27/04/2010

People in sleepervans could be fined if they do not stay at campsites, under proposals to combat freedom-camping problems.

Campervan rental companies have agreed to tell people hiring sleepervans, which have beds but no toilet, that they cannot freedom-camp.

The initiative was one of 30 to emerge from a meeting of the New Zealand Freedom Camping Forum in Auckland last week.

The Tourism Industry Association-led forum said its local government members were working on a template freedom-camping bylaw that councils could adapt as necessary.

The local government representatives would also advocate a "national instant-fine system" to punish campers who broke the rules.

"At present, each council has different rules about freedom camping," association advocacy manager Geoff Ensor said.

"Local government has agreed to develop a model bylaw and share best-practice freedom-camping management models from around the country."

Councils, tourist information centres and operators would increase their efforts to keep campers informed of the rules, Ensor said.

Westland District Mayor Maureen Pugh, a forum member, will present the ideas at a meeting with other district councils in Dunedin next month.

Pugh went to the forum with instructions to investigate a ban on sleepervans, although she said she realised this was "not generally acceptable".

"All it was doing was demonstrating the level of frustration in the district," she said.

Westland residents have long complained of freedom campers using the bush and roadsides as a toilet, littering and sneaking on to campsites to use their facilities.

If rental companies told people in sleepervans that they had to stay at campsites it would solve many problems, Pugh said.

"It's that first point of contact which is so important," she said. "If they can do it, it saves us having to pick things up at the other end."

Freedom-camping bylaws would still vary, but councils needed to have the power to fine those who broke the rules, Pugh said.

Brendon Pope, general manager of campervan rental company Escape, said the firm encouraged customers to use camping grounds but was happy to work with directives from the forum or the association.

[nitpicker1]

re

Plans to curb freedom camping
By GILES BROWN - The Press
Last updated 05:00 27/04/2010 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plans to curb freedom camping and "education" are advertising freedom camping and thus compounding the problem.

The little rental vans suppliers are gearing up to include portable toilets.. suggestions include the likes of this, see: http://www.campingloo.com/buy/foldingtoilet.html

which will make it easy for disposal in public rubbish bins in town or in a motorcamp bin when they sneak into camps at night for a shower.

Another trick that prevents the indicator flags of toilet paper in laybys showing dumps of excreta is to save the used bits up in shopping bags for disposal in public rubbish bins in town or when they book into a camp to use shower and washing machines.

Once apon a time we used to take a wee shovel with us when going walkies. Now you take a plastic bag for two legged friends as well as for those with four.


Where there's a won't-pay there's a way.

PS a sudden death occurred at the local illegal camp a couple of nights ago, six vans were there. An elderly woman and heart attack, I am told. At least she was doing what she loved doing. 


PPS   http://gbweekly.co.nz/2010/4/22/long-term-freedom-campers-outstay-their-welcome 
   

[Magoo]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3646391/Poo-pots-fix-freedom-camper-problem

Surely a small trowel is all that is necessary to cope with the waste.    While campers may use poo pots or other portable methods of containment, they still need to be disposed of with care.   

[nitpicker1]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3646391/Poo-pots-fix-freedom-camper-problem

Surely a small trowel is all that is necessary to cope with the waste.    While campers may use poo pots or other portable methods of containment, they still need to be disposed of with care.  

In the seven years we spent on the road, and later on poptop camping, that is what we used to do.

Trouble is SHEER NUMBERS now,  so many opting to a gipsy lifestyle and John Key as  Minister of Tourism


see  http://www.doc.govt.nz/upload/documents/parks-and-recreation/places-to-visit/wellington/poo-pot-brochure-sm.pdf

re my http://xtranewscommunity2.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,7157.0/msg,81042.html

I think I'll have to stop dumpster diving to remove the plastic and glass bottles, aluminium cans,  cardboard and paper that I recycle to save dump trips and dump fees even though I have notices indicating that "WE RECYCLE"  and labelled containers for all those things.

I can deal with shopping bags full of used toilet paper,  I just don't touch full light soft ones any more.

But if I ever find a black plastic squishy one it will hit the fan.

and if I ever find a toilet blocked by one of DOC's biodegradable paper sheeted bundles .....................

 

[Magoo]

Perhaps you could swap the dumpster diving for dumpster fishing using a pole with a hook or spike on it.  The thought of what you could find yourself holding is enough to me off recycling.     It is hard to imagine the mentality of those who will stand in front of a row of recycling bins and still put the rubbish in the wrong one.   It is those (some) with a love of the outdoors  that are creating such a mess behind them.  Hard to fathom.
Easy to follow poo pot instructions but not sure they will 'catch on'.     I am off chocolate fish at the moment.

[Kiwithrottlejockey]

Potty solution to camper pollution

By RHONDA MARKBY - The Timaru Herald | 5:00AM - Saturday, 01 May 2010

If it's good enough to clean up after your dog, it's good enough to clean up after yourself.

That's the view of Aoraki Mount Cook Department of Conservation staff, and they think they could just have the answer to the issue of toiletless freedom campers — poo pots, the human version of a doggy-bag.

Rural Women New Zealand has surveyed members nationwide on the environmental impact of the increasing use of sleeper vans with no on-board sanitation facilities.

Responses indicate that the actions of some tourists are having a visible impact on the rural landscape, and possibly detrimental public health effects.

Human excrement, used toilet paper, dirty nappies, tampons and waste water were among rubbish being left in rural communities and the countryside by freedom campers.

For the last few years DOC has been selling "poo pots" to those going into areas of the national park without toilets, or where toilets are not usable in winter, DOC's community relations programme manager at Mount Cook, Shirley Slatter, said.

They are now selling around 200 kits annually and other DOC offices have also started selling them.

The kits are designed for solid human waste, ensuring it is carried out of the wilderness area.

A special "poo pot tube" has been installed at the White Horse Camping Ground near the village which the containers can be emptied into, and they can also be emptied into a hut toilet or a long-drop.

Mrs Slatter said a poo pot would usually hold several days' waste.

There was wider acceptance of the pots now than when they were introduced. Groups like those from Aoraki Polytechnic's outdoor recreation course routinely took them into the mountains.

Mrs Slatter was also aware of a nearby station owner who would not allow rock climbers on to the property without a poo pot.

While freedom campers usually stopped in areas of the park where there were toilets, staff were aware of other areas where they would not be in a hurry to look behind the bushes.

Mrs Slatter said including a pot or similar kit in sleeper vans could help reduce that problem.

She had seen other toilet kits, including one described as a toilet in a bag which is used by the Australian army.

Rural Women New Zealand has been concerned about the issue for the last couple of years and has written to the Tourism Association NZ to ask what progress has been made.

Many members are calling for mandatory portaloos in sleeper vans, or banning the vans altogether, as well as more education about legal effluent dump sites and a consistent local government policy on roadside camping.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/3646365/Potty-solution-to-camper-pollution

[nitpicker1]

I imagine poor old TJ tying to squat over one of DOC's solution, http://www.doc.govt.nz/upload/documents/parks-and-recreation/places-to-visit/wellington/poo-pot-brochure-sm.pdf he's likely to end up sitting on top of the deposit when he tries to arise these days.

That'd put a whole new interpretation on ROFLMAO   
 



see also  http://www.doc.govt.nz/parks-and-recreation/national-parks/aoraki-mount-cook/plan-and-prepare/pack-it-out-poo-pots/

[Kiwithrottlejockey]

I've usually managed to hold on until I got to the next DOC toilet before dumping a No.2 when in the conservation estate.

Virtually ALL backcountry DOC huts have toilets and on most routes, the huts are less than a day apart.

If you cannot hold on and crap only once a day, then there is something wrong with you! 

[guest49]

The filthy kyakers are more of a problem round here!
Wherever they come ashore is like a latrine!