Spy Base protestors in court

[guest49]

No Crusader - its from my opinion of spying and espionage - I dont trust the Americans - never have, never will.  Every day they lie to their own people - I have no doubt they have lied to the NZ govt in the past too, totally untrustworty & certainly not a country to hold hands with.

What you describe, is just your average run-of-the-mill politician from any country you care to name.

[Magoo]

dont trust the Americans - never have, never will.  Every day they lie to their own people - I have no doubt they have lied to the NZ govt in the past too, totally untrustworty & certainly not a country to hold hands with.

It gives me the warm fuzzies to know we live in an honest and trustworthy country.

[guest49]

LOL

[guest49]

Ever time I hear one of our politicians speak about honesty and transparency I cringe, waiting for the bolt of lightning to smash down out of a clear blue sky...........

[Magoo]

I can't think of one polly  at this precise moment that I am glad is there.

[Kiwithrottlejockey]

And Justic is right, the public can clamour all they want to 'know everything' but, like much in life some things should only be on a 'need to know' basis. Information needs to be gathered without the offenders knowing you are gathering it, otherwise it becomes farcical.

If I'm paying for it (through taxes), then I consider I should have a right to KNOW about what my money is paying for.

Otherwise, I should be able to opt out of paying my share of anything where I'm not entitled to KNOW all about it.

[Justic]

And Justic is right, the public can clamour all they want to 'know everything' but, like much in life some things should only be on a 'need to know' basis. Information needs to be gathered without the offenders knowing you are gathering it, otherwise it becomes farcical.

If I'm paying for it (through taxes), then I consider I should have a right to KNOW about what my money is paying for.

Otherwise, I should be able to opt out of paying my share of anything where I'm not entitled to KNOW all about it.

  What effect do you think the loss of your taxes would have KTJ ?

Better give me your home phone number and address and I will circulate them through all govt departments to ensure you do. 

or let me know if you would prefer a more direc appraoch e.g. face to face visits 

[guest49]

And Justic is right, the public can clamour all they want to 'know everything' but, like much in life some things should only be on a 'need to know' basis. Information needs to be gathered without the offenders knowing you are gathering it, otherwise it becomes farcical.

If I'm paying for it (through taxes), then I consider I should have a right to KNOW about what my money is paying for.

Otherwise, I should be able to opt out of paying my share of anything where I'm not entitled to KNOW all about it.

Mmmmmm
Just extending that a little......   I as a taxpayer, pay your wages.  I should be entitled to know all about you and everything you do.

[Lovelee]

who said our politicians are honest and trustworthy?

[Kiwithrottlejockey]

You are free to apply under the Official Information Act to KiwiRail (a government-owned entity) and they will be required to answer.

However, I should have the same right to apply under the Official Information Act to the GCSB for information about what they are up to and they should likewise be required to answer.



Regarding secrecy and rail operations proceedures....when I first joined the NZ Government Railways in the mid-1970s, they were extremely secretive about their operating proceedures, rules, regulations, and in particular about their Working Timetable (which wasn't as the average person would presume from the title a big train timetable, but was in fact a very comprehensive guide to rail operations on the various lines and sites throughout the country). All of those books were marked Top Secret....for Railway Staff Only and we were forced to sign the Official Secrets Act on starting work with the department. Thankfully, they have gone away from all that paranoid bullshit these days (it happened a long time ago), which is why you can use the Official Information Act to demand answers from them about various things. What a pity the GCSB (which I'm paying for) isn't also covered by the Official Information Act, eh?

[Crusader]

And Justic is right, the public can clamour all they want to 'know everything' but, like much in life some things should only be on a 'need to know' basis. Information needs to be gathered without the offenders knowing you are gathering it, otherwise it becomes farcical.

If I'm paying for it (through taxes), then I consider I should have a right to KNOW about what my money is paying for.

Otherwise, I should be able to opt out of paying my share of anything where I'm not entitled to KNOW all about it.

I hate the fact that my taxes go towards bums that can't get jobs and paying for prisoners to have 3 good meals a day but that happens to be NZ policy and so I am required to lump it just like you in this case.

[Crusader]

You are free to apply under the Official Information Act to KiwiRail (a government-owned entity) and they will be required to answer.

However, I should have the same right to apply under the Official Information Act to the GCSB for information about what they are up to and they should likewise be required to answer.

What information about Kiwirail is detrimental to national security? In the case of national security you don't have a right to know.

[DidiMau69]

I recall some years back a women refusing to pay that part of her tax that went toward Defence. My response was a letter to the editor stating that I was refusing to pay that part of my tax that went toward the support of the unemployed and solo mothers as I wasn't responsible for them.

Crusader is right there are aspects of Natiional Security that you have no need nor right to know about.

[Kiwithrottlejockey]

NOT GUILTY

ON

ALL CHARGES!

[Crusader]

It is a sad day for democracy when a bunch of treehugging clowns can claim they didn't know they were breaking the law and that be accepted as a legitimate reason. Maybe the next time I see these idiots I should stomp their face into the concrete and claim I didn't know I was breaking the law citing their case as my defence.

[Kiwithrottlejockey]

Not guilty verdicts in Waihopai trial

ONE News with NZPA | 5:56PM - Wednesday, March 17, 2010


Waihopai Spy Base with a deflated dome over one of the satellite dishes.

Three men accused of breaking in to the Waihopai spy case near Blenheim and damaging a protective dome have been found not guily.

The jury returned the verdict on Wednesday night. They were found not guilty on all three charges.

Adrian Leason, a teacher, Dominican friar Peter Murnane and farmer Sam Land pleaded not guilty in Wellington District Court to one count of burglary and two of wilful damage at the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) facility.

The prosecution had said the trio cut their way through fences into the base, then slashed the plastic cover over a satellite dish with sickles

In his closing arguments, Leason's lawyer Michael Knowles said the men were driven by a belief that the satellite caused human suffering and their actions to shut it down, if only temporarily, were lawful.

"That belief doesn't have to be correct," he said.

"They had a belief in a higher law, a law for protecting people."

Murnane, who defended himself, said he believed the satellite aided crimes against humanity.

"I had to do this, it was necessary for me," he said.

Land's lawyer, Tony Shaw, said his client genuinely believed his actions were lawful, and he should be acquitted.

Crown prosecutor Glen Marshall said the men deliberately and intentionally damaged the satellite cover hoping, rather than believing, their actions were lawful.

"It's not a belief, it's something less, a hope, an expectation, an opportunity," he said.

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/not-guilty-verdicts-in-waihopai-trial-3420185

[Crusader]

KTJ why would you support unlawful behaviour? It seems you have a lot of growing up to do.

[Kiwithrottlejockey]

According to the court, it wasn't unlawful behaviour.

A NOT GUILTY verdict tends to support that view.

The Crown failed to prove that the defendants' behaviour was unlawful, hence the verdict.

[Crusader]

It has just set a precedent that not knowing the law is now a legitimate defence. Watch the flood gates open and this country sink further down the toilet.

[Kiwithrottlejockey]

Personally, I prefer to see those satellite dishes uncovered.

Then, we can determine who our government spooks are spying on.

Surveyors have already determined from the angle the dish was set to (while it was uncovered) that our government was spying on telecommunications satellites belonging to friendly countries.

Don't you think spying on friends is a pretty rank thing to do?

[guest49]

Well now!
This travesty of justice opens the floodgates!

I really hope the crown takes it further. 
Now nobodys property is safe from burglars, arsonists and thugs.  All they have to do now is say they believed they had a right to be there and that they had a right to commit wilful damage.

[Crusader]

Personally, I prefer to see those satellite dishes uncovered.

Then, we can determine who our government spooks are spying on.

Surveyors have already determined from the angle the dish was set to (while it was uncovered) that our government was spying on telecommunications satellites belonging to friendly countries.

Don't you think spying on friends is a pretty rank thing to do?

Spying on friends has been around since the beginning of time. Who is your friend today could well be your enemy tomorrow. So no I don't think it is rank to spy on your friends but letting them know you are spying on them defeats the whole purpose!!

[Crusader]

All this case shows is that New Zealand jurists are the best retards the lawyers can get away with selecting.
The irony is that the retarded dudes who got let off by their retarded peers call Americans mindless retards, hello pot this is kettle.

[Lovelee]

for any one to think these guys didnt know they werent allowed there is bleeding stupid, but, someone did and they got off.

Says heaps about it really - I wonder if the jury in the main would rather not have them there.

I always wondered what was inside them, never knew they were just satelite dishes - why are they covered?

[guest49]

why are they covered?

Norhing sinister - just keeps the weather off them