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Subsidised Employment workers being used by employers then unwanted

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Im2Sexy4MyPants
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« on: February 18, 2009, 07:33:07 am »

Subsidised employment and part time workers are being used by employers then encouraged to leave when the subsidy runs out,
so those employers can then employ more cheap subsidised workers,

Its subsidised employment with no chance of a permanent job,employers are thinking well why not,these employers are on the pigs back with the government is paying half their workers wages for them

A friend has this problem,at his job he will never be able to work a 40 hour week because that would mean he would be full timer and his employer does not want to pay the full time wages,he talked to income support about this

they told him this is a big problem and that it is happening all around newzealand.

He is a very hard working guy,but he feels used and abused.and is having trouble earning enough to pay his bills and live.......
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Lovelee
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« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2009, 07:46:25 am »

This has been a happening thing since the wage subsidys came in - if you find an answer to it, tell Campbell Live!
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donquixotenz
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« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2009, 07:48:00 am »

Unfortunately that has been going on for years..
The work and income people knpw about it but have not acted as it got unemployed off book reduced payouts and saved mony with stand downs time of folk dumped when subsidy run out.
 this was prime option for dol employment service case manglers........so much so that I suspected they got a bonus if they placed people on this scheme.
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« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2009, 08:07:55 am »

It can only be a suspicion Don.  The conception people have that winz staff ever got bonuses is a misconception - theres been many investigations into it and nothing has ever been found.  You only need to ask anyone there - and believe me - theres plenty of whistleblowers in the MSD.

Theres little winz can do about it - the new employment sacking regulations even supports this happening!!
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« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2009, 08:21:09 am »

This is turning good people into a slave class.

Its too  bad we cant name and shame employers

We could call them: Dole Bludging Employers 

They are stealing our tax dollars  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2009, 08:26:04 am »

Yep yer right Sexy.

Some years ago there was a scheme for tree farmers (it wasnt only for tree farmers - it was called the green something whatever)   Roll Eyes - they hired a couple of planters and were paid by the govt the subsidy for having them - the farmer may have paid some of the wages but the staff were treated appallingly.

That was almost 20 yrs ago - now those farmers have hectares of tree plantations ready for milling.  A wonderful money making scheme for the tree farmer - he makes hundreds of thousands + and the taxpayer put the trees in for him.
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« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2009, 09:09:20 am »

This is from Australia about so called dole bludging makes interesting reading because it is going to happen again on a much larger scale in newzealand

{an excerpt from it}

Work or riot’: The unemployment crisis


During the seventies poverty and unemployment ceased to be issues at the fringes of society and began to invade its core, in previously comfortable middle class areas as well as amongst the working class. At the start of the decade it was thought no government could survive unemployment higher than two or three percent, and jobless figures of four percent had played a part in Whitlam's fall. Malcolm Fraser, however, was able to survive much higher unemployment levels. His government had the dubious distinction of establishing, in a population used to relative prosperity, a grudging acceptance that mass unemployment was “normal”. He did this partly by taking the offensive.

 

In the monetarist framework unemployment became a tool of policy, helping the government to “fight inflation first” by reducing consumer demand and by discouraging industrial militancy. Of course if put this baldly Fraser's methods would have aroused public outrage, so he resorted to strategems aimed at deflecting public blame away from himself and onto the victims.

 

The myth of the “dole bludger” was originally contributed to Australian folklore by the Whitlam government, but it was fully developed and enriched in the middle to late seventies. Victorian Liberal MLA Jeff Kennett set the tone magnificently in July 1977 with his claim that only about 17 percent of people on the dole were really unable to find work, estimates he said derived from “commonsense evaluations”.  The efforts of opportunist politicians like Kennett were backed up by the media, who portrayed the jobless as “bludging on beaches” while “being paid for doing absolutely nothing”.

 

Fraser had taken office pledging to crack down on this supposed abuse, and his successive moves to tighten the rules brought applause not only from the media but also from a large proportion of ordinary people. Partly this resulted from media manipulation. For example the Australian reported in 1976 that the “number of people prosecuted for abusing unemployment benefits doubled in the first six months of 1976 compared with the previous half year. Figures compiled by the Department of Social Security show 47,000 people had their benefits ended in the last year after investigation by the Department's field officers.” Casual readers might think 47,000 people had been prosecuted, though the small print revealed that the total was 115. The Department had stopped benefits to most of the 47,000 for reasons far removed from “dole bludging”.

 

The pervasiveness of the “bludger” myth could not, however, be fully explained by media hype, for large numbers of people seemed remarkably anxious to embrace it. Working in a sheet metal factory at the end of 1975, I was astonished at my fellow workers' angry demands to “get the bludgers off the dole”. When I pointed out that unemployment had soared in the previous year, asking whether an epidemic of laziness had suddenly hit the country, I was met with belligerent assent. These were well-meaning people with no apparent reason to attack the unemployed, but they were also poorly paid and trapped in a dirty, oppressive workplace, making them prime candidates for a syndrome Keith Windschuttle explained very well:

more here

http://www.anu.edu.au/polsci/marx/interventions/years/7riot.htm
...
I remember a lot of this stuff,
its some of the things governments do to pass the buck stay in power and to save their own arses,
« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 09:49:39 am by Im2Sexy4MyPants » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2009, 10:41:42 am »

Turia: Let's scrap the dole
| Wednesday, 15 October 2008

 
Sunday Star-Times
MONEY FOR NOTHING: 'I'm opposed to the dole. I have to be very frank with you - I don't think it is healthy for the spirit of our people, to be getting money for doing nothing' - Maori Party co-leader Tariana Turia.

Maori Party co-leader Tariana Turia wants the dole to be scrapped and replaced with government-subsidised jobs.


Mrs Turia suggested the idea at the party's economic policy launch in the Hastings suburb of Flaxmere yesterday, but it was absent from a breakdown of policies released yesterday and is not supported by either main party.

TV3 News reported last night that when Mrs Turia was asked if she wanted to see the dole scrapped, she said: "Yes. Absolutely. I'm opposed to the dole. I have to be very frank with you - I don't think it is healthy for the spirit of our people, to be getting money for doing nothing."

Mrs Turia said she wanted the next government to return to subsidised "make-work" schemes where people get a community job and are paid a government wage.

"What we need is the government to make work, to get our people back into a strong work ethic."

Mrs Turia said the Maori Party also wanted to set up a community development bank to provide loans to Maori and their small businesses.

A development bank would be funded from money already being channelled to Maori through the Economic Development Ministry.

She said there were small scale examples of community banks in Wanganui where she is MP.

Small businesses owned by Maori found it difficult to access loans to set up and expand.

The Government had proposed setting up a Maori development bank earlier this year, but the legislation failed because the Maori Party and others objected to it being set up from money held by the Maori Trustee.
The Maori Party also called for a reduction in business tax from 30 per cent to 25 per cent for all businesses with a net income of under $100,000 year.

Other economic policy includes zero tax on the first $25,000 of earnings and removing GST from food.

The party provided no costings for its policy proposals.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4728223a11.html

Wonder how this idea is going Huh
« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 10:45:59 am by Im2Sexy4MyPants » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2009, 11:10:32 am »

Quote
Some years ago there was a scheme for tree farmers (it wasnt only for tree farmers - it was called the green something whatever)    - they hired a couple of planters and were paid by the govt the subsidy for having them - the farmer may have paid some of the wages but the staff were treated appallingly.

That was almost 20 yrs ago - now those farmers have hectares of tree plantations ready for milling.  A wonderful money making scheme for the tree farmer - he makes hundreds of thousands + and the taxpayer put the trees in for him.

Ahhhh yesssss. Taskforce Green. There was Community Taskforce as well.

I was on that causal-worker-lost-job-after-6-months-because-being-employed-for-longer-would-have-made-me-perminant-staff tread mill for 3 years. I lost on temp job to a person who couldn't do it as well because he had a subsidy and I didn't.

Hard on the bank account and for emotional wellbeing it's a recipe for depression.
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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2009, 11:14:51 am »

I remember being on a similar scheme but I lasted 2 years. they kept renewing it every six months or so.  It was only when I announced that I was getting married that they terminated my employment as the scheme was only for singles.
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« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2009, 11:15:05 am »

Taskforce Green. There was Community Taskforce as well.

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« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2009, 01:36:45 pm »


I'll take the other side for this argument.............(but only for a moment)

we had a business in the late 80's, very manual orientated.  We were able to hire guys on through the scheme at the time. Because we were just starting out and very small, it was a godsend to us.  One of the guys we hired was completely illiterrate(came thru the system and still couldnt read or write)  He was BRILLIANT.  although when you first met him, you did wonder!!.  but a great guy, worked his arse off, became a family friend.  We eventualy hired him on full time cause we didnt want to lose him,  our business unfortunately went broke (after 87 crash.. we hung on for 2/3years but lost everything in the end) he left Northland and headed to christchurch, we were more than happy to give him a great referral, my hubby found him a job in a similar line to what we did,  He apparently is now a foreman and very highly regarded within the industry.

sometimes it does work, and it is important to hear about the succesess.  If not for the subsidy we could never have hired him, we would have missed out on a great worker and friend, and he could have ended up as a criminal.

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« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2009, 02:37:15 pm »

Yup I dd a lag on Taskforce green once but we fucked around so much it was more like play time for grown ups, we rode ATVs all over the place for no reason, burned rubbish on the farm, went eeling, chased possums around the hay barn, killed rats in the grain shed using alkathene pipes, and generally goofed off, whenever the boss came looking for us it wasnt unusual for him to find workers fast asleep under some long grass or bushes....what a hoot.
 Grin
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Im2Sexy4MyPants
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« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2009, 06:33:07 pm »

workers being used by employers then unwanted expect a cycle of men and women exploited being treated like second class citizens and left feeling depressed and unsure of their future.
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« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2009, 08:31:28 pm »

There was a case in Napier a few years ago where a meat company used WINZ to hire and then dump them at will.( until WINZ woke up )
The head honcho of the meat company even got a business award for it!

My company used to hire temp workers for "work experience" too,heavily subsidised of course by the gvnt,but the minimum (union) wage applied to that dept.They made $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$s.

 Both Labour and the Nats/BRT want a huge pool of temporary workers to supply them,but it will come back to bite them on the arse.
The whole idea of the re-introduced (BRT)90day bill was to make as many people as possible have to rely on the will of employers,and of course no chance of any arguement!!!!!!!!!
Take it or leave it!!!!!!!!!!!

Now,recently there has been huge rise of unemployed and Key and the BRT will regret having so many people on temporary work anyway!!!!!!!!!
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« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2009, 08:57:44 pm »

Something must have changed with this subsidised worker scheme. We used it many years ago when it first started and the conditions then were : staff member subsidised for 6 months and then you had to employ them ( if you put them off without a damn good reason you could be made to pay back all the subsidy and couldn't employ another person on a subsidy in their place)
If the scheme returned to this it might work properly.
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