and UP YOUR'S too, F&P and other traitors

[Nitpicker1]

So you hope John Key will pay you to take your production plants to Mexico, China, Taiwan and all other points of the compass?

Seems to me ya should be asking Mexico and/or your host countries to prop you up,        not       us         taxpayers,        we're       an          endangered         species

[bump head benny]

The friggin nerve o those fux!!!
 

[donquixotenz]

Yes I agree.......Why should jk support a company that abandoned New Zealand workers for foreign slave labour.
That is just good money after bad.
Let them sack their management and return manufacture to new zealand and let the shareholders who in their greed voted to allow the board to shift operations to foreign ports, probably mostly foreign investors, pay for their stupidity.
For Nz tax payer to support this pathetic excuse for a Kiwi company who have in effect mostly abandoned the kiwi workers and attempting to hold the kiwi taxpayer to ransom is gross stupidity...........Let them stew in the cookpot of their own greed.
It will all come out in the wash

[Newtown-Fella]

now come on Don you and i and everyone else knows that part of the problem here is that governments in the past have encouraged importation of white goods to give Mrs Housewife a choice in what products she can choose from when doing up the kitchen and laundry

NZ wages have been a factor in the manufacturing process as well and why shouldn't a company source goods elsewhere if they can be made cheaper and quicker than in NZ ?

I once had an F&P Dishwasher that apart from having the F&P label on it been made in France !!

it's like many manufacturing operations that once thrived in NZ [ cars e.g ] there comes a time when it's just no viable to keep making things here if the demand is tapering off


F&P have problems and already the top management are taking pay cuts

if nothing happens or some sort of rescue package isn't put in place some 1600 people will be joining the dole queue

Key is only saying the govt will look at helping not promising anything definate at this stage


Key to look at bailout for F&P

Prime Minister John Key has signalled that the Government could step in as a last resort to prevent renowned whiteware maker Fisher & Paykel from collapsing.

Mr Key revealed yesterday that he had phoned F&P Appliances chief executive John Bongard after its shares plummeted to record low levels on the back of news of a slump in profits and ballooning debt.

He stressed that Mr Bongard had not asked for government help and that none had been offered. The company's problems appeared to be "temporary".

"It's important to recognise that Fisher & Paykel is a profitable company ... They have a plan and we are looking to them executing that plan.

"But I acknowledge that they are an iconic New Zealand company. They employ 1600 people in New Zealand. And I've made it clear to John Bongard I will stay in touch."

Mr Bongard took an immediate 7.5 per cent cut yesterday to his $1.1 million pay packet and other executives took a 5 per cent pay cut after the company issued a profit warning on the back of tough trading conditions.

Salaried staff will be rostered off for one day a month to help trim costs.

The 75-year-old company said yesterday that it might struggle to break even this year. Its profit to March 2008 was $54.2 million.

Its shares nosedived from $1 to 65 cents after yesterday's news.

Mr Key said there was "substantial weakness" in the international market.

"It is logical that it would flow through to reduced sales by our exporting companies. It is not unique to Fisher & Paykel but clearly they are at the sharp end of that."

As the worldwide recession deepens and the credit crunch bites, Treasury has drawn up a "watch list" of businesses the Government may be forced to help out if bank funding dries up.

Mr Key refused to comment yesterday on whether F&P was on the list, saying he would not discuss individual cases. But the Government reserved the right to act in the national interest in some cases, he said.

"The Government does not want to become a primary banker. That is not to say we are ruling out our options. Other governments around the world have chosen to take that course and we reserve the option to do so."

F&P said it had been talking to "a number of potential strategic partners" and may look to raise new capital.

Mr Key indicated the Government might be prepared to bend foreign investment rules if that helped the company secure an investor.

"If [blocking an investment] meant the loss of 1600 jobs and the collapse of an iconic company like Fisher & Paykel, that would be unacceptable to me."

Shareholders Association chairman Bruce Sheppard said Mr Key should follow through on his pledge to bail out struggling businesses by backing F&P, an iconic New Zealand company that had to be kept afloat.

ICONICALLY KIWI

* The company was founded in 1934 by Sir Woolf Fisher and Maurice Paykel, who started importing fridges and washing machines from the United States. Sir Woolf died in 1975 and Mr Paykel in 2002.

* Manufacturing began in New Zealand in 1939, with the assembly of wringer washing machines and refrigerators.

* By 1949, the company was producing 600 washing machines, 500 fridges and 700 vacuum cleaners each month.

* The one-millionth refrigerator and one-millionth washing machine were both built in 1974.

* A medical division was formed in 1977 - the forerunner to Fisher & Paykel Healthcare.

* In 1979, the company listed on the stock exchange.

* It entered the Australian market in 1987, Europe in 1992, Singapore in 1995 and the US in 1996.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominionpost/4849694a6479.html

[donquixotenz]

Not worried about all that, now is now, and in the aftermath of previous fubars and the current worls finacial speculation market, should we pay the piper so the share holders can continue to profit at the ecconomies expense.......
I say no!!! never, and anybody that thinks so is playing with themselves.
If we want money to circulate in the economy and create jobs we have to keep it at home, not paying foreign labour and instead reduce imports and foster exports by way of tariffs, levies and subsidies the balance of payments.
Forget about the lassais faire and free trade practices and return to a managed ecconomy, ( refer australian ecconomic framework fitzpatrick circa 1970) then we will see more dollars going further in our pockets and less leakage of productivity to offshore suppliers and interests.
Forget about the cheap stuff we buy from places like chili china and fnwhereelse think about what it costs us in buying thier often shonky goods to get the immediate cheapo.
Pay cuts at top management level is a piss dribble in the bucket, the real solution is stop the leakage of profits to overseas investors and sack the whole management of f&p that brought yet another new zealand institution to it's knees in name of Mamon.
 Who gives a fuck about icons when they cost it is time to dump them and F&P have only their own mismanagement to blame.
Smart companies either saw the crash comming or were up with the play and adjusted product and strategies to the predictions.
These old established buismness instutitions have to get with the 21 st century or become the dinosaurs that F&P appears to have become

[guest49]

Wot ee' said!

[dragontamer]

Cheap isn't the only reason not to chose F&P.  If the friggen machines were as long lasting and capable and failsafe as the other options I'd happily pay extra for one.  But they aren't.  Not by a long shot.

All you are paying for is a name - and thats plain stupid.

[Brownie55]

From experience, I would never buy another F&P appliance.

[ssweetpea]

A large portion of F&P's finacial woes are due to overseas debt. Their finance/accounting department either took a gamble on exchange rates and lost or just plain effed up big time.

They can't pull themselves out because all their export markets are being credit crunched worse than NZ.

IMO they shouldn't receive a government bail out. The reasons for government bailouts of Air New Zealand and the railway buy back do not stand up here. Air New Zealand going belly up would leave much of NZ without air transport, the railways again are very local. The absence of either would have an enormous immediate impact on the availbility of long distance passenger and freight movement.

F&P are just a manufacturer, no different from any other locally owned manufacturer. F&P going belly up might put a few hundred workers out of work but it won't prevent anyone from being able to buy a washing machine, so long as they have the money of course.

[Im2Sexy4MyPants]

F&P may be going on the dole lol

[Im2Sexy4MyPants]

John Key said on the news he wouldn't rule out bailing F&P out with our tax dollar$.
In the times ahead we can expect a lot of firms falling over and lots of unemployed.
The money world is fucked and it sure seems that nobody has a clue how to fix it.

[bump head benny]

IMHO the money world is fucked  because corruption is built in to the capitalism model. We are seeing this as the billionaires are openly creaming off the top and the taxpayers (as usual) are paying for it. its the way its been ever since banks and money came into existence

[beaker]

When the stockmarket crashed in the 80's we lost our family business due to the likes of F&P who showed no compassion to my parents who had to sell the family home to pay off all the creditors. 

Most of the creditors were understanding given the economy crashing and were happy to work with my parents and their accountant to pay off outstanding bills.  F&P were like savage pit bulls refusing to come to a compromise and being very demanding and heavy handed. 

I find it ironic that now they are having money issues they come crying to the government.

Maybe Key should be like Obama and demand that the directors and senior managers take massive pay cuts and no bonuses.  Sadly at the end of the day the only ones who will suffer are the factory workers and the suppliers - not the ones that can afford to cut out a few international business trips each.

[sickofpollies]

It is extremely bad policy for the government to prop up a company that has shown no loyalty to NZ.

On the other side of the coin has anyone here tried to start up manufacturing here in NZ? I'm not talking cottage industry, I'm talking mass production. I've tried twice. Between IRD (the government) and the banks all I can say is forget about it. You need excessive amounts of personal capital to start, the risks are high and the rewards are low. If I had excessive amounts of personal capital to start with, I really wouldn't bother with manufacturing; it's asinine. Maybe in other countries starting manufacturing isn't such a stupid option, but it is here in New Zealand. IOW I fully understand why Fisher and Paykel might want to explore non-New Zealand options for manufacturing.

IRD are there to make sure you never get rich and the banks won't help you unless you're rich. To make manufacturing work you need to be rich to start off with. For return on investment investing in other industries (notably financial institutions) you're capable of better rewards. Manufacturing in NZ sucks.

[Magpie]

F and P isn't a company trying to set itself up in manufacturing, it has been in the business for 70 years.

Moving its operations overseas showed no loyalty to NZ, but then money has no loyalties. It was a decision the company had the right to make, but it can't have things both ways.

To be fair, F and P don't appear to have asked for government support, Key jumped in because he feared the prospect of a major manufacturer falling over on his watch.

For F and P to accept taxpayer assistance after at least partly turning its back on this country would be totally hypocritical.

[Nitpicker1]

sop,

It is extremely bad policy for the government to prop up a company that has shown no loyalty to NZ.

Loyalty went out the back door, SOP, in company with ethics.

Remember about '95 the OECD? Then '96ish the MAI and Lockwood Smith's vehement support of a policy that luckily, thanks to France, fell on it's face?

What we have now is a watered down version theoretically designed to bridge the gap between rich and poor, but it seems to me the result has been to squeeze the lifeblood out of developed countries and raise expectations of the poorer, all in the name of the pursuit of "GROWTH".

As I see it, the result has been exploitation, coersion, "toxic" investments, fraud, opportunism, and a race to the top over the bodies of those it was theoretically designed to protect. 

Old established firms, finding their home market melting under the heat of cheap imports could not compete so joined the exodus.

AND NOW THE POWERS THAT BE ARE TRYING TO RECREATE A FAILED EXPERIMENT

[sickofpollies]

Actually my argument on starting manufacturing also has serious implications for existing manufacturers. Essentially the argument boils down to cost to benefit. If F&P needed to expand manufacturing, the combination of IRD, compliances and the banks make any such venture dubious.

At least in my case the banks weren't interested in helping and therefore apart from time wastage, didn't really cost me a penny. For existing manufacturers OTOH they can build, buy or otherwise acquire detrimentally costly plant or fixed assets more easily. Given the rewards are slim and what gets left over is pilfered by the government, why bother?

I cannot fault F&P for taking off to greener pastures (though I expect they'll get stung anyway), I do detest any form of bailout by our government to a company that has gone to (foreign) green pastures.

****

Nitpicker1

The concept of loyalty along with honour died decades ago. Politicians are self-serving. I don't expect anything they do to benefit anyone else but themselves and their mates. If the "common" people somehow benefit then that's more an accident than an act of deliberation.