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Some reading for the “anti-warmalists” and “climate-change deniers”

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Kiwithrottlejockey
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« Reply #825 on: September 14, 2017, 02:07:19 am »

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« Reply #826 on: September 14, 2017, 02:07:34 am »


from the Los Angeles Times....

Will humans wreck life on Earth before
escaping to Mars and Saturn's moons?


By DAVID HORSEY | 5:00AM PDT - Wednesday, September 13, 2017



ON Friday morning, scientists at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena will watch their Cassini spacecraft take a suicide dive into Saturn's atmosphere, thus ending two decades of spectacular exploration of the giant planet and its multiple moons.

Cassini is about to run out of fuel and, though it could continue sending data back to Earth, the folks at JPL would no longer be able to steer its course. The decision was made to destroy the spacecraft now to avoid any chance that it might crash into Titan or Enceladus and contaminate the potentially life-sustaining environments of either of those moons.

Those are magic words: life-sustaining. During its long trek around Saturn, Cassini discovered that Titan and Enceladus both contain elements that could allow life forms to develop and that habitability may not be out of the question. But don't pack your bags for a trip to Saturn yet. Ours is not a Star Wars galaxy where humans can hit warp drive and zip between an array of planets that are all equally hospitable. In the non-fictional universe, the tiny blue speck called Earth is the only known environment where human beings can survive and thrive without the aid of complex technology.

In terms of meteorology and geology, Titan and Earth have many things in common. Cassini discovered liquid lakes on Titan — some as big as 20 miles across. They may not be conducive to water skiing, however, since they contain liquid methane or a combination of methane and ethane. Plus, it's not bikini weather on Titan, where the average temperature is minus 290 degrees Fahrenheit.

If you are looking for waterfront property, Enceladus might be the place to go. The Cassini probe found strong signs that there are vast reservoirs of liquid water on that moon. The catch? This oceanic world is encased in ice that is many miles thick.

Of course, no one is suggesting that the moons of Saturn will provide a place of refuge for human beings anytime soon. That is being said about Mars, though. NASA hopes to have a Mars colony established by the 2030s. Elon Musk, the brilliant billionaire behind Tesla and SpaceX, is even more ambitious. He believes a city of 1 million people “with iron foundries and pizza joints” can be achieved within 50 years. He wants to be one of those people and hopes to die on Mars, though, as he has stipulated, “not on impact”.

According to an article in the London Telegraph, Musk envisions the trip to Mars, not as a cramped, long slog, but as something akin to a cruise ship in space with movies, restaurants, lectures and zero-gravity games.

The serious challenges come once one arrives on the Red Planet. As anyone who saw Ridley Scott's 2015 movie “The Martian” knows, surviving on Mars is not the easiest task. Temperatures dip from a balmy 70 degrees to an unimaginably chilly minus 225. There is no vegetation to eat and no animals to hunt. Monumental sand storms dwarf our terrestrial hurricanes. There may be plentiful water, but no one has found it yet. And all of that is not nearly the worst of it.

Gravity is a big problem — or the lack of it. Living in a place with 38% as much gravity as Earth, humans would quickly see their muscles shrink, their hearts grow weak and their bones deteriorate. Then there's the low atmospheric pressure that would make a walk in the pale Martian sunshine a bit unpleasant. All the water in a human body would quickly evaporate — tears, saliva, skin mucous, the water in the lungs. Death would not be immediate, but that is irrelevant since the lack of oxygen in the air would already have killed you. And did I mention deadly radiation?

A space suit, of course, can offer protection and artificial environments may be able provide a place from which Mars colonists can escape all the perils of their new home. And Musk is right that, however harrowing life on other planets may be, humans need to become a multi-planet species if we want to avoid eventual extinction.

The Earth will not last forever. In about 5 billion years or so, our sun will have become so enlarged that it will burn up the Earth (something that will happen to Mars, as well). Humans will be long gone by then because, in a billion years, the expanded sun will start boiling the oceans and human existence here will have become impossible. Or maybe a giant asteroid will take us out sooner than that, just as one wiped out the dinosaurs. A more immediate worry, though, is that we will do ourselves in.

In much less than 1 billion years and maybe in as little as 100, humans could so contaminate our home planet and disrupt the Earth's climate that life — at least civilized life — would be unsustainable. That is why, as we dream of cities on Mars and as we explore distant moons, we should not be lulled into thinking we can quickly escape the mistakes we make here on Earth.

Besides, why be in a rush to take leave of a planet with trees and birds and mammals and amphibians and fish and streams and lakes and seas and rain and snow and bright sunny days and food grown from the ground and air that we can actually breathe? This place has been good to us. We need to do a much better job of keeping it habitable while we still have the chance.


__________________________________________________________________________

Related to this topic:

 • Climate deniers play politics with looming natural disasters


http://www.latimes.com/opinion/topoftheticket/la-na-tt-mars-saturn-20170912-story.html
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« Reply #827 on: September 14, 2017, 02:20:53 am »

No, humans won't destroy the earth. FFS🙄
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« Reply #828 on: September 16, 2017, 09:43:55 pm »


QUESTION:What do you get when you combine human-caused global warming and climate change resulting in extreme weather events with “fuck-you, profit at all costs capitalist pigs” and a state run by stupid Trump-supporting rightie/Republican retards?  ANSWER: Dead senior citizens.



from The Washington Post....

Florida nursing home where eight died after Irma defends actions,
says it called governor for help


“Repeatedly, I was told that our case was being escalated to the highest level,” an executive said.

By AARON C. DAVIS, KATIE ZEZIMA and MARK BERMAN | 8:07PM EDT - Friday, September 15, 2017

Janice Connelly sets up a makeshift memorial in Hollywood, Florida, in memory of the senior citizens who died at the Rehabilitation Center at Hollywood Hills. — Photograph: Carline Jean/South Florida Sun-Sentinel/Associated Press.
Janice Connelly sets up a makeshift memorial in Hollywood, Florida, in memory of the senior citizens who died at the Rehabilitation Center
at Hollywood Hills. — Photograph: Carline Jean/South Florida Sun-Sentinel/Associated Press.


THE night before Hurricane Irma began roaring over Florida, staffers at the Rehabilitation Center at Hollywood Hills locked the doors, shuttered the windows and turned the temperature down to about 67 degrees — a buffer, administrators thought, to keep the building cool in case the power went out.

It wouldn't last long. About 3 p.m. on Sunday, the lights flickered, nursing-home executives say. The power stayed on, but a janitor soon noticed a problem: The massive chiller used to serve the 152-bed facility was spewing warm, muggy air.

The following evening, Natasha Anderson, one of the executives, called a private phone number for Governor Rick Scott (Republican) seeking urgent help, Anderson said. It was the first of three such calls, she said, to a number that officials confirmed Scott gave out to nursing homes as an emergency backup in planning calls before the storm.

“Repeatedly, I was told that our case was being escalated to the highest level,” Anderson said.

Yet, she said, no one came — and nursing-home officials did not consider the crisis urgent enough to bring patients to the hospital across the road.

By noon on Wednesday, eight residents were dead. Their deaths are being investigated as criminal homicides, and the nursing home has been closed.

The account the nursing-home executives provided to The Washington Post offers new details of the deteriorating conditions inside the facility. But it also is contradicted by law enforcement and state officials on key points, including how aggressively the nursing home had sought assistance and precisely when staffers called 911 as a patient went into cardiac arrest.

Attempts to assign blame abound.

The Florida Department of Health said that “at no time” did the nursing home “report that conditions had become dangerous or that the health and safety of their patients was at risk.”

“It's shocking that these trained medical professionals put patients' lives in needless jeopardy. The fact is that this facility never called 911,” said Mara Gambineri, a spokeswoman for the department. “The Rehabilitation Center at Hollywood Hills is responsible for the health and safety of their patients.”

The governor's communications director, John Tupps, wrote in an email that “Every call made to the Governor from facility management was referred to the Agency for Health Care Administration and the Florida Department of Health and quickly returned.” Tupps did not respond to a follow-up email asking if the governor's office had a record of the three calls in question from the nursing home.

The tragedy at Hollywood Hills showed that for billions of dollars and countless hours spent preparing for Florida's next inevitable hurricane, the lifeline for one of the nation's largest concentrations of the elderly and disabled remained tenuous in the aftermath of Irma.

The survival of residents at the home rested not just on the state's vaunted $3 billion “smart grid,” intended to limit power outages and target repair efforts, or on lists of critical infrastructure where restoring power is a top priority. Survival also depended on phone tag between nursing-home administrators, state officials and utility providers.

Several executives of a limited liability corporation that controls the nursing home declined to comment, including the principal owner, Florida resident Jack Michel.

But the nursing home made Anderson available for an hour-long interview, as well as a company official who spoke on the condition of anonymity under ground rules set by Hollywood Hills. The officials provided an internal timeline of attempts to reach state officials and its utility provider.

“Nurses, doctors, administrators, staff — everyone was doing everything that they could,” Anderson said. “We were waiting and waiting for help that never came.”

The nursing home and an adjoining psychiatric facility are connected to the power grid by two lines, the officials said. One provides electricity to most of the facility, including lights, oxygen machines, ventilators and the kitchen. The other supplies a central air-conditioning system.

When the warm air began pouring out of vents on Sunday, executives contacted Florida Power and Light within 45 minutes, saying the line approaching the facility from the north appeared to have been down, according to their timeline. Anderson said the nursing home heard from the utility on Monday that it would be coming that day.

It never did, she said.

The nursing home provided ticket numbers for service requests that it had placed with FP&L beginning on Sunday. The Washington Post was able to confirm two of the requests using state records and the utility's website.

The power company on Friday expressed “our deepest sympathies” but said in a statement that “we are limited in what we can say” due to the ongoing investigations. The company did not answer questions regarding the calls the nursing home said were made.


Patients are evacuated at the Rehabilitation Center at Hollywood Hills after a loss of air conditioning due to Hurricane Irma on September 13th. — Photograph: Amy Beth Bennett/Associated Press.
Patients are evacuated at the Rehabilitation Center at Hollywood Hills after a loss of air conditioning due to Hurricane Irma
on September 13th. — Photograph: Amy Beth Bennett/Associated Press.


Hollywood Hills had in the days before the storm obtained eight “spot chillers” that could be run using a generator. Each had two “armlike” funnels that direct cool air. An exhaust vent from each machine releasing warmer air was routed upward, to the drop ceiling on each floor.

With the power otherwise still on at the nursing home, they were plugged into wall outlets. Staffers on Monday also went searching for portable fans and spent $900 to put one in each resident's room.

After 5:30 p.m., more than 24 hours after the air conditioning stopped working and with forecasts for higher temperatures in the days ahead, Anderson said she first called the governor's cellphone and left a message: “162 patients, elderly, some on oxygen. We need the air conditioning restored.”

Between then and 10 p.m. on Monday, Anderson said she received two return calls from state officials saying they were working on the request.

On Tuesday, there was still no sign of an electric crew. Anderson said she continued making calls at about 10 a.m. Staffers and family members of patients, who by that time were beginning to worry, made calls to FP&L.

Ellie Pina, daughter of Mirelle Pina, a 96-year-old resident at the facility, said she and others repeatedly called FP&L and were ignored. Pina said that by Tuesday at noon it was extremely hot.

“It was like 110 degrees in there, it was unbearable. Not even the fans were helping them,” she said. “The heat was amazing.”

“I told Florida Power and Light the generators were going to give up soon. And it happened. I told my husband people were going to die in there. And it happened,” she said, reciting her ticket number for service.

Pina said the staff had put patients, clothed in as little as possible, in the hallways close to the cooling units.

The company official who spoke on the condition of anonymity said that each of the chillers had a thermometer and that the readings upstairs showed temperatures in the low 80s — “82 or 83, it was holding steady,” the official said.

Patients' temperatures were checked on each eight-hour shift, and for the last time on Tuesday evening by a physician assistant who made rounds. None of the people who gave accounts of the situation were present after 11 p.m. Tuesday night.

According to the timeline provided by the nursing home, the first 911 call was placed at about 1:30 a.m. to report a patient in cardiac distress.

In an email on Friday, officials with the city of Hollywood and its police department said the first 911 call came later, at 3:01 a.m.

By 4:45 a.m., according to the timeline provided by the nursing home, five patients had been in cardiac arrest or respiratory distress and were treated by paramedics.

Randy Katz, chairman of the department of medicine at Memorial Regional Hospital, across the street, said that around 6 a.m. one of the senior nurses walked over to Hollywood Hills. She made a call: These patients needed to be evacuated, immediately, he said.

Patients looked to be in distress. The second floor was extremely hot. “There's no reason patients that age with chronic medical issues should be in a facility without air conditioning,” Katz said.

The hospital activated what is called a mass-casualty event. Hospital staffers rushed to Hollywood Hills, looking for patients and getting them out as soon as possible.

“Our staff literally went room to room and evacuated the building,” he said.

The sickest patients were rolled to the emergency room across the street on stretchers, with some being treated for dehydration, respiratory issues including respiratory failure, heat exhaustion or infection and high fevers.

“The temperatures during the day outside are in the mid-90s. I'm going to guess you can probably add another 10 degrees to that,” Katz said of the temperature inside.

In a statement later in the day, Scott called the situation “unfathomable” and vowed that the state would hold accountable anyone not acting in the best interests of their patients.

As nursing-home executives began arriving at the building later on Wednesday morning, they were instructed to stay behind a police line, saying the facility was a crime scene.

By 2 p.m., Anderson said, with detectives the only ones remaining, the air conditioning was turned back on.


• Aaron Davis is a reporter for The Washington Post's Investigative team.

• Katie Zezima is a national correspondent at The Washington Post covering drugs, guns, gambling and vice in America. She covered the 2016 election and the Obama White House for The Post.

• Mark Berman covers national news for The Washington Post and anchors Post Nation, a destination for breaking news and stories from around the country.

__________________________________________________________________________

Related to this topic:

 • VIDEO: Florida nursing home death toll rises

 • Power still out at dozens of Florida nursing homes as investigation continues into 8 deaths

 • Eight dead after South Florida nursing home's air conditioning fails following Hurricane Irma


https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/fla-nursing-home-defends-actions-says-it-called-governor/2017/09/15/9eebc198-9a3d-11e7-87fc-c3f7ee4035c9_story.html
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« Reply #829 on: September 16, 2017, 10:11:59 pm »

Ahhhhhhaha....
Hang on....how do you Add 2+2 and get ............2,345,070,563,000...😳

...is that they teach you at kiwirail labouring school?
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« Reply #830 on: September 16, 2017, 10:23:35 pm »

What do you call a hysterical climate religion + a dumbass gullible left wing media?
Answer: A clusterfuck of misdirected and pointless mental energy.
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« Reply #831 on: September 16, 2017, 10:26:19 pm »



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« Reply #832 on: September 16, 2017, 10:32:04 pm »

..haha...you are the guy on the right...correct?
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« Reply #833 on: September 16, 2017, 10:34:43 pm »


Errrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....if you aren't dumb, the sign the guy on the right is holding says it all.

I guess this means you are DUMB.
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« Reply #834 on: September 16, 2017, 10:37:10 pm »

...I just thought he was a splitting image...unless you have a tein🙄
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« Reply #835 on: September 16, 2017, 11:42:38 pm »


More American “trash the planet” GREED....



from The Washington Post....

Trump administration working toward renewed
drilling in Arctic National Wildlife Refuge


A draft rule would remove obstacles that have blocked
exploration for decades in this vast Alaska wilderness.


By JULIET EILPERIN | 10:09PM EDT - Friday, September 15, 2017

Caribou traipse across the snow in June in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. — Photograph: The Asahi Shimbun/Getty Images.
Caribou traipse across the snow in June in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. — Photograph: The Asahi Shimbun/Getty Images.

THE Trump administration is quietly moving to allow energy exploration in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge for the first time in more than 30 years, according to documents obtained by The Washington Post, with a draft rule that would lay the groundwork for drilling.

Congress has sole authority to determine whether oil and gas drilling can take place within the refuge's 19.6 million acres. But seismic studies represent a necessary first step, and Interior Department officials are modifying a 1980s regulation to permit them.

The effort represents a twist in a political fight that has raged for decades. The remote and vast habitat, which serves as the main calving ground for one of North America's last large caribou herds and a stop for migrating birds from six continents, has served as a rallying cry for environmentalists and some of Alaska's native tribes. But state politicians and many Republicans in Washington have pressed to extract the billions of barrels of oil lying beneath the refuge's coastal plain.

Democrats have managed to block them through votes in the Senate and, in one instance in 1995, by a presidential veto.

In an August 11th memo, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service acting director James W. Kurth instructed the agency's Alaska regional director to update a rule that allowed exploratory drilling between October 1st, 1984, and May 31st, 1986, by striking those calendar constraints.

Doing so would eliminate an obstacle that was the subject of a court battle as recently as two years ago.

“When finalized, the new regulation will allow for applicants to [submit] requests for approval of new exploration plans,” Kurth wrote in the memo.

If the rule is finalized after a public comment period, companies would have to bid on conducting the seismic studies. The U.S. Geological Survey estimated in a June 27th memo, obtained by Trustees for Alaska through a federal records request, that this work would cost about $3.6 million.

With oil prices averaging around $50 per barrel, potentially too low to justify a significant investment in drilling in the refuge, it is unclear how much interest companies would have. Some might consider proceeding with those studies to get a better sense of the area's potential.

The behind-the-scenes push to open up the refuge — often referred to by its acronym, ANWR — comes as long-time drilling proponents occupy key positions at the Interior Department.

Its No.2 official, David Bernhardt, represented Alaska in its unsuccessful 2014 suit to force then-Interior Secretary Sally Jewell to allow exploratory drilling there. Joseph Balash, President Trump's nominee to serve as Interior assistant secretary for land and minerals management, asked federal officials to turn a portion of the refuge over to the state when he served as Alaska's natural resources commissioner. The state's plan was to offer the land for leasing.


The coastal plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, with the Brooks Range as a backdrop. — Photograph: U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service.
The coastal plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, with the Brooks Range as a backdrop. — Photograph: U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service.

During a stop in Anchorage on May 31st, Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke said he hoped to jump-start energy exploration on Alaska's North Slope in part by updating resource assessments of the refuge.

“I'm a geologist. Science is a wonderful thing. It helps us understand what is going on deep below the surface of the Earth,” Zinke said at the time. “We need to use science to update our understanding of the [coastal plain] of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge as Congress considers important legislation to responsibly develop there one day.”

The Fish and Wildlife memo notes that the Interior Department asked it “to update the regulations concerning the geological and geophysical exploration” of that coastal area but does not identify who issued the directive.

An Interior official said in an email on Friday that the department is “required by law — the Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act — to allow for seismic surveys in wildlife refuges across Alaska.”

“Hundreds of seismic surveys have been conducted on Alaska's north slope — many of them on ANWR’s borders,” the official added.

Both the Clinton and Obama administrations concluded that the department was legally barred from permitting seismic studies in the refuge. And environmentalists have consistently opposed such activity, which sends shock waves underground. They say it would disturb denning polar bears, which are listed as threatened under the Endangered Species Act, as well as musk oxen and other Arctic animals.

An increasing number of polar bears are now denning onshore during the winter — when seismic studies would take place — due to diminishing sea ice, and a significant portion of the coastal plain is designated as critical habitat for the bears. The August 11th memo directs the Fish and Wildlife Service's regional director to conduct an environmental assessment as part of the proposed rule change because the Endangered Species Act requires federal agencies to show that their actions will not jeopardize or adversely modify critical habitat of a listed species.

“The administration is very stealthily trying to move forward with drilling on the Arctic's coastal plain,” said Defenders of Wildlife President Jamie Rappaport Clark, who led the Fish and Wildlife Service under President Bill Clinton. “This is a complete about-face from decades of practice.”

Environmental groups would be likely to challenge any decision to conduct seismic work in the refuge in federal court.

Alaska officials have been working for several years to restart seismic studies on the coastal plain. They say the initial ones, conducted in the winters of 1984 and 1985, were done with outdated technology and do not reflect the area's true potential. The Geological Survey, which reanalyzed that data nearly 15 years later, estimated that 7.7 billion barrels of “technically recoverable oil” lie under the coastal plain.

The June 27th memo, sent to Zinke's energy policy counselor Vincent DeVito, said the department could either assume the existing seismic data is acceptable, re-examine that data with “state-of-the-art” technology or conduct new studies with modern, 3-D technology.


Herds of caribou dot the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. — Photograph: U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service/Associated Press.
Herds of caribou dot the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. — Photograph: U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service/Associated Press.

In an interview on Thursday, Alaska Natural Resources Commissioner Andy Mack said that recent oil discoveries near the refuge's western edge suggest there may be more oil there than federal officials identified three decades ago.

“Alaska's always had an abiding interest in resource development, particularly in oil,” Mack said. “We're not discounting the existing data, but it's old, and it's relatively limited.”

The question of whether Interior can restart the seismic work is a subject of legal dispute. The 1980s studies, which took place along 1,400 miles of survey lines and were financed by private oil firms, were aimed at gathering information for a report the interior secretary submitted to Congress in 1987.

In 2001, Interior solicitor John Leshy issued a formal opinion concluding that the 1983 rule was “a time-limited authorization for exploratory activities in the coastal plain.”

Twelve years later, Alaska sought permission from the Fish and Wildlife Service to launch a new exploration program; Obama administration officials rejected the request, and the state sued.

On July 21st, 2015, U.S. District Judge Sharon L. Gleason ruled against the state. “Whether the statute authorizes or requires the Secretary to approve additional exploration after the submission of the 1987 report is ambiguous,” she wrote, but Jewell's interpretation that she no longer had authority to allow it “is based on a permissible and reasonable construction of the statute.”

Mack said he was not sure whether companies would want to drill in the refuge, but they now are more interested in the potential on land than offshore.

ConocoPhillips, for one, is “actively exploring and focused on new development opportunities” within the neighboring National Petroleum Reserve-Alaska, according to spokesman Daren Beaudo. “If ANWR was opened, we'd consider it within our portfolio of opportunities … and it would have to compete with other regions for our exploration dollars,” he said.

Yet Pavel Molchanov, an energy analyst at Raymond James & Associates, predicted “very little interest” in drilling in the refuge for the foreseeable future.

“The number of companies that would be open to a meaningful bet on ANWR we could realistically count on one hand, and that would be generous,” Molchanov said.


• Juliet Eilperin is The Washington Post's senior national affairs correspondent, covering how the new administration is transforming a range of U.S. policies and the federal government itself. She is the author of two books — one on sharks, and another on Congress, not to be confused with each other — and has worked for The Post since 1998.

__________________________________________________________________________

Related to this topic:

 • In push to deliver on Trump's energy pledge, Interior looms large

 • Trump signs executive order on offshore drilling: ‘We're opening it up.’


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-administration-working-toward-renewed-drilling-in-arctic-national-wildlife-refuge/2017/09/15/bfa5765e-97ea-11e7-87fc-c3f7ee4035c9_story.html
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« Reply #836 on: September 17, 2017, 12:02:25 am »

...great idea...more jobs😜
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« Reply #837 on: September 17, 2017, 12:04:04 am »


Yeah, trash the environment for future generations in the name of GREED.

Too bad about the wildlife who live there, eh?

It would be the equivalent of me burning your house down with you inside it.
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« Reply #838 on: September 17, 2017, 12:11:20 am »

North America is a big place...there will still be room for wildlife😜
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« Reply #839 on: September 17, 2017, 12:43:39 am »


Oh well, I guess if I burnt your house down, there'd still be plenty of room for you elsewhere in the country, eh?
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« Reply #840 on: September 17, 2017, 12:45:48 am »

Wind and solar can't power modern civilisation. That is the truth. That is why Germany is building coal plants. They tried the utopian fantasy of wind and solar and realised they would go down the toilet if they continued. At the moment it's fossil fuels, hydro or nuclear. Wind and solar is just wankfest window dressing.
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« Reply #841 on: September 17, 2017, 12:58:36 am »

Wind and solar can't power modern civilisation. That is the truth. That is why Germany is building coal plants. They tried the utopian fantasy of wind and solar and realised they would go down the toilet if they continued. At the moment it's fossil fuels, hydro or nuclear. Wind and solar is just wankfest window dressing.


Another thread @ XNC2....

Freedom from the National Grid



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« Reply #842 on: September 17, 2017, 01:00:27 am »

The cleanest fossil fuels option is gas. That is the best medium term transition fuel until a green fuel can be developed that is as cheap as fossil fuels. China is already starting to build advanced molten salt nuclear reactors. The US would be too if it wasn't hampered by green tape courtesy of Luddite green knobs.
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« Reply #843 on: September 17, 2017, 01:10:16 am »

Show me a country with cities running on 100% wind and solar.
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« Reply #844 on: September 17, 2017, 02:07:10 am »


I've got a mate in Gisborne who removed himself from the national grid way back in 1999.

He uses a combination of solar, wind and hydro to generate all of his own electricity requirements.

And it's a shitload cheaper to do it now than when he did it way back then 18 years ago.

And he doesn't pour greenhouse gases into the atmosphere from his electricity generation.
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aDjUsToR
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« Reply #845 on: September 17, 2017, 02:26:09 am »

You do realise ALL Co2 in the atmosphere accounts for 0.04% of the atmosphere and 97% of that 0.04% is natural? You do realise that the greenhouse effect is limited? It's like painting a barn red. The first coat changes the colour. Subsequent coats make no difference. For every DOUBLING of Co2 in the atmosphere you get a theoretical increase in temp of about 1C. Negligible. So what did the obsessive warmunists do? They made up theories about how "feedbacks" (such as increased water vapour) would supposedly "amplify" this minuscule effect. Guess what? Their models and the predictions are continuously proven wrong. So they keep dodging and weaving with new theories of what "could" and "might" happen. A bit like those infomercials for bullshit remedies 😁 Pill X "may" help with hair loss 😀
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Kiwithrottlejockey
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Having fun in the hills!


« Reply #846 on: September 17, 2017, 02:32:01 am »


And high-capacity battery storage is getting cheaper all the time too.

The new NiCad battery cell packs which have been developed for electric cars are only a fraction of the price of lead-acid batteries which have been used up until now.

And there is a new generation of electric cars which have a range of considerably more than 400km, including use on steep hills.

That sort of technology is flowing into power storage for home solar and wind generation systems.

The big joke is eventually going to be on consumers paying an every-increasing share of electricity distribution networks as smart, astute folks abandon the national grid altogether and switch to home-generated clean, green electrical energy, just like my mate in Gizzy did 18 years ago.
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Donald
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« Reply #847 on: September 17, 2017, 06:29:02 am »

Ktj...."just like my mate in Gizzy...."

...now I know you are talking shit...there's no way a goon like you would have mates...🙄
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aDjUsToR
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« Reply #848 on: September 17, 2017, 12:17:31 pm »

Here's the reality about grid scale battery storage...

In short the costs are in eye watering and staggering territory...

https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/08/nation-sized-battery/

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aDjUsToR
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« Reply #849 on: September 17, 2017, 12:22:52 pm »

Nicad is old technology. Cadmium is a highly toxic heavy metal. Next idea?
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