Lovelee
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« on: February 16, 2009, 06:19:26 am » |
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The Government's plans for military-style "boot camps" for the worst young criminals will be kick-started today when Prime Minister John Key announces that the legislation will be introduced to Parliament. The policy is a favourite of Mr Key, who raised it in his state of the nation speech a year ago, and the bill will get its first reading later in the week as part of National's 100-day plan. It includes the Fresh Start programme - lasting 12 months, including up to three months in boot camp - and the doubling of youth court sentences. It will also extend the Youth Court's jurisdiction so it can deal with those aged 12 and 13 accused of serious offences. Social Development Minister Paula Bennett has previously said some of the changes will not be available until next year, to allow time to set up the programmes, or have the space in residential centres to house those sentenced. Other measures - including greater use by the Youth Court of orders for alcohol and drug rehabilitation, mentoring and parenting courses - would be available sooner as no law change was required. The legislation is also expected to include "spotlight sentences" - where young offenders who do not comply with supervisory sentences are subject to monitoring with an ankle bracelet. In his speech, Mr Key said spotlight sentences would be a court-ordered contract setting out the expectations on the offender such as curfews, an end to gang involvement, compliance with drug treatment programmes, or regular school attendance. Mr Key said that to ensure compliance the court would "wield a big stick" - "intensive supervision and surveillance, including electronic monitoring of the young person using an ankle bracelet". The Act party's "three strikes and you're out" legislation will also go before Parliament this week. Under the policy, criminals convicted of a serious offence for the third time will be sent to prison for a minimum of 25 years. It is being introduced to Parliament by National as part of its support agreement with Act, although National has agreed to support it only to the select committee stage. Act leader Rodney Hide said it was pleasing to see the policy make it in under National's 100-day plan. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10556933&ref=rss
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Laughter is the best medicine, unless you've got a really nasty case of syphilis, in which case penicillin is your best bet.
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donquixotenz
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STILL TILTING
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« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2009, 06:31:23 am » |
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It is fine to produce all these initiatives....some of which should have been instituted long ago but notice that because of the extra costs and lengthened sentencing and higher costs of rehab such good innovations cause they are attempting at the same time to bring in the cheap nasty contractors who will have little interest in rehab and heaps in keeping overheads down thus completely undermining any good these initiatives will allegedly gain...........
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Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body.
But rather, to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming...
WOW, What a Ride!"
Please note: IMHO and e&oe apply to all my posts.
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Lovelee
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« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2009, 06:49:51 am » |
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Act leader Rodney Hide said it was pleasing to see the policy make it in under National's 100-day plan.
The policy hasnt made it yet - and to see if its going to give any benefit to the offenders will be another 24 months at least.
Seems to me the buildings are available - old mental hospitals and Im sure theres a few army/military buildings that can be utilised also.
Id also be looking at these kids recieving the unsupported childs bene - and that would go to the organisation booting them to cover costs - yeh sure in the long run its the taxpayer paying - this way though I imagine the bootees would assume they are paying their way.
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Laughter is the best medicine, unless you've got a really nasty case of syphilis, in which case penicillin is your best bet.
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donquixotenz
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« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2009, 06:59:45 am » |
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Under the policy, criminals convicted of a serious offence for the third time will be sent to prison for a minimum of 25 years. Has this policy done anything other than make recividist criminals more determined not to get caught the third time resulting in more hardened criminal turning to murder to cover up even minor crimes. Has it been successful in the states other than having more crims in longer at taxpayer expense? IMHO this path will just be a big stick breaking more eggs to spread on our faces.
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Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body.
But rather, to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming...
WOW, What a Ride!"
Please note: IMHO and e&oe apply to all my posts.
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Lovelee
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« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2009, 07:13:32 am » |
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Isnt this what many asked for?
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Laughter is the best medicine, unless you've got a really nasty case of syphilis, in which case penicillin is your best bet.
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donquixotenz
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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2009, 07:37:03 am » |
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Whilst I agree that thge bootcamp idea properly funded run and supervised is a positive act and good idea ...............but...................contracting it out and the three strikes are non functional.... really abhorent crimes such as gratious repeat violent crime, murder, rape, child abuse should not need the three strikes rule if the courts got some guts and applied the maximun sentences without parole for the really clearcut and abhorent offenders..........the three strikes rule has a very real danger of seeing a car converter shoplifter or other lesser criminals being put away for disproportionate terms and will possibly lead even minor crims to murder to avoid the big hammer of the third strike.
There used to be a sentence used in australia along with the hard labour called Govenors Pleasure where habitual criminals were locked up and the key basically thrown away..........I believe this was discontinued as many non violent offenders of even minor crimes were being incarserated for near life sentences without any possibility of rehab or parole.
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Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body.
But rather, to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming...
WOW, What a Ride!"
Please note: IMHO and e&oe apply to all my posts.
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k1w14ever
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« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2009, 07:59:09 am » |
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I would also make them pay. Great idea.
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The length of a film should be directly related to the endurance of the human bladder.
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Lovelee
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« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2009, 08:00:37 am » |
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This boot camp legislation will possibly be aimed at a certain age group, and more probably will not include the very worst crimes. Probably 12 - 18. NZ stats have changed their website - This is what Ive managed to glean in stats - thats quite a large number of kids having contact with the cops before age 20.
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Laughter is the best medicine, unless you've got a really nasty case of syphilis, in which case penicillin is your best bet.
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Brownie55
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OK, so what’s the speed of dark?
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« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2009, 08:04:40 am » |
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We used to have borstal for young offenders , when did they close down?
Boot camp sounds good . they are young, fit with loads of energy to burn off .
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I almost had a psychic boyfriend, but he left me before we met.
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Calliope
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If music be the food of love, play on
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« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2009, 08:33:39 am » |
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lets hope that it also includes an education package. What use is it teaching discipline if the kids are illiterate.
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[W]hat the internet and its cult of anonymity do is to provide a blanket sort of immunity for anybody who wants to say anything about anybody else, and it would be difficult in this sense to think of a more morally deformed exploitation of the concept of free speech. - Richard Bernstein in the New York Times
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Kiwithrottlejockey
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« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2009, 09:25:00 am » |
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We used to have Boot Camps for young offenders.
They were known as Detention Centres. More than 75% of Detention Centre trainees (as they were known) used to re-offend and end up inside within twelve months. Eventually they were called Corrective Training Centres and the length of stay was doubled from three months to six months. The recidivism rate increased even further. So eventually they were scrapped.
Now Jonkey and Rodney Hide are re-introducing a failed scheme from the past! I imagine the results will be exactly the same for the new boot camps that they were for the old boot camps. I wonder who Jonkey and Wodney will blame then?
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Kiwithrottlejockey
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« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2009, 09:30:28 am » |
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We used to have borstal for young offenders , when did they close down? Borstals were closed down around the time Detention Centres became Corrective Training Centres (see my previous message). The reason Borstals were done away with was because they were virtual criminal training schools with young people coming out 1000% badder than they were when they went into them. Boot camp sounds good . they are young, fit with loads of energy to burn off. See my previous message about the failed experiment with Boot Camps in the past (Detention Centres and Corrective Training Centres) and the reason why they were done away with.
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Lovelee
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« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2009, 09:58:28 am » |
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I would like to think that just because a program such as this failed once - doesnt mean with some tuning it will fail again.
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Laughter is the best medicine, unless you've got a really nasty case of syphilis, in which case penicillin is your best bet.
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Magpie
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« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2009, 10:02:01 am » |
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When you beat your head against a wall you discover it hurts. So you "fine tune" your beating and then do it again.....
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I have nothing to declare but my genius - Oscar Wilde at US Customs
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Lovelee
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« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2009, 01:19:17 pm » |
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The legislation was a key promise by National on the campaign trail. Announcing details today, Social Development Minister Paula Bennett said the legislation would include: * New powers for the Youth Court to issue a range of compulsory orders, including parenting, mentoring and drug and alcohol rehabilitation programmes; * Extending the jurisdiction of the Youth Court to include 12 or 13 year olds accused of serious offences; * Doubling residential sentences available to the Youth Court to a maximum six months, followed by a year's supervision; * New programmes incorporating military-style training. The military-style camp programme would target the 40 most serious young offenders and consist of up to three months' residential training, using army type facilities or training methods. It would be followed by up to nine months of intensive support, Ms Bennett said. "There is a small core of young people who have exhausted all of their options under the current system, or who are guilty of extremely violent crime. The impact of these 1000 offenders on their victims can be far reaching. We need to take action now to help them avoid a bleak future." http://www.stuff.co.nz/4849576a6160.html?source=RSStopstories_20090216
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Laughter is the best medicine, unless you've got a really nasty case of syphilis, in which case penicillin is your best bet.
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Kiwithrottlejockey
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« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2009, 01:26:24 pm » |
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* New programmes incorporating military-style training. The military-style camp programme would target the 40 most serious young offenders and consist of up to three months' residential training, using army type facilities or training methods. It would be followed by up to nine months of intensive support, Ms Bennett said. http://www.stuff.co.nz/4849576a6160.html?source=RSStopstories_20090216Yep....apart from being restricted to only 40 inmates, that describes the old failed Detention Centres concept to a “T” (including the military-style training bit of it....the old Detention Centres were even staffed by heaps of ex-army personel turned screws) — the Nats (and Wodney with the Yellow Jacket) are merely dragging out an old failed concept from the past and dressing it up in new colours. WHEN it fails again (not if), I wonder who the Nats (and Wodney) will try to blame? I bet it will be anyone except themselves!
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ballasted moth
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« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2009, 01:49:34 pm » |
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It is great to see a govt delivering on its promises Despite nayayers boot camps often have a positive outcome for the participants as for the first time they have set boundaries and a sense of achievement
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Greens are really RED
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dragontamer
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« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2009, 02:20:18 pm » |
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Well OK. But why do the privately run ones work if the government ones won't.
There are 2 that I have heard of through the schools/ troubled teens networks that are highly successful (one uses boot camp techniques, the other uses adrenilin based stuff like sky diving, kayaking, rock climbing, but both basically stress-test the kids into compliance ) - and that is coming from the kids and the teachers that have to deal with them when they come back.
One other is a Taiaha Camp which isn't for the 'bad uns' but has a really positive affect on the mouthy ones self-dicipline.
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Lovelee
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« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2009, 02:29:46 pm » |
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Dragon - They sound like they operate way different from the ones TJ is talking about. Ive seen a couple of programs of the ones in the US that seem to operate the same way - they succeed more often than not, it appears.
TJ - oldtimers disease is taking affect - when are where were these 'camps'?
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Laughter is the best medicine, unless you've got a really nasty case of syphilis, in which case penicillin is your best bet.
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Kiwithrottlejockey
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« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2009, 02:47:30 pm » |
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TJ - oldtimers disease is taking affect - when are where were these 'camps'?
I presume you mean: when and where were these 'camps'? There were three Detention Centres in NZ. One was at Waikeria Prison Farm (which used to be a Borstal before it became an adult jail). Another one was at Hautu (part of the Tongariro Prison Farm complex, but separate from the Hautu adult jail). The third one was at Invercargill (semi-attached to the old Invercargill Borstal). All three were deemed to be failures (along with the Borstals) due to the fact that the vast majority of trainees/inmates of both the Detention Centres and the Borstals ended up back up in the slammer again within a few months. So....Borstals were done away with and Detention Centres were doubled to a six month stay (instead of the previous three months) and were renamed Corrective Training Centres. However, they turned out to be a massive failure just like their predecessors (Borstals and Detention Centres) due to the fact that the vast majority of inmates ended up back in the slammer within a few months of being released. It's interesting that the present government are planning to bring back a FAILED system that also FAILED when it was tinkered with and the length of sentence was doubled. It shows how naive politicians are when they puff out their chests and talk bullshit about law & order, then put their bullshit into practice while ignoring the lessons of the past!
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DazzaMc
Don't give me Karma!
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« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2009, 02:51:42 pm » |
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Throw the baddies into the Army/SAS (we still have an Army... right?) - that will fix em.
Just don't teach them how to actually kill anyone!!
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Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
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dragontamer
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« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2009, 02:57:15 pm » |
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There is a Youth Detention Centre at the Rolleston Prison. It used to be at Kingslea in town (or closer to town anyway) but they had a major issue of people just walking away whenever they felt like it, so they built a new one inside the perimeter fence of Rolly Prison. There are a couple of parts to it. Ordinary Detention and Sexual Offenders, but all are Youth.
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Lovelee
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« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2009, 02:59:03 pm » |
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TJ - oldtimers disease is taking affect - when are where were these 'camps'?
I presume you mean: when and where were these 'camps'? .. not only old timers
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Laughter is the best medicine, unless you've got a really nasty case of syphilis, in which case penicillin is your best bet.
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Lovelee
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« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2009, 03:01:01 pm » |
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All three were deemed to be failures (along with the Borstals) due to the fact that the vast majority of trainees/inmates of both the Detention Centres and the Borstals ended up back up in the slammer again within a few months.Hmm yeh these started closing at the same time the childrens homes closed - they were feeding the centres with their inmates
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Laughter is the best medicine, unless you've got a really nasty case of syphilis, in which case penicillin is your best bet.
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Brownie55
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OK, so what’s the speed of dark?
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« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2009, 03:46:43 pm » |
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So what is the solution .
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I almost had a psychic boyfriend, but he left me before we met.
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