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Cult or church?

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AnFaolchudubh
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« Reply #225 on: November 08, 2009, 10:23:06 am »

Went up to see Nickleback last night and as we were driving up the motorway, we saw at least 2 massive billboards saying a super city needs a super church, with tamaki's face on it.

Cult sprang to the minds of all of us in the car.
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R. S. OhAllmurain
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« Reply #226 on: November 09, 2009, 03:26:19 am »

Then you must be in the remaining 1% faol
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AnFaolchudubh
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« Reply #227 on: November 09, 2009, 07:15:05 am »

Then you must be in the remaining 1% faol

I guess you're right, I too should stopping pitying you as the rest have, you are so bloody dumb you're not worth worrying about!
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« Reply #228 on: November 09, 2009, 07:30:00 am »

I reached that conclusion a while back...
 Smiley
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Sir Blodsnogger
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« Reply #229 on: November 09, 2009, 02:29:01 pm »

So faol instead of hiding away like our resident choochoo driver who incidentally is a failed Roman C why dont you join up and show Brian T the way to go?
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AnFaolchudubh
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« Reply #230 on: November 09, 2009, 04:42:47 pm »

So faol instead of hiding away like our resident choochoo driver who incidentally is a failed Roman C why dont you join up and show Brian T the way to go?

I don't hide away gommie! Nope his brand of bull is not appealling to me and I'd rather not have to swear alleigance (sp) to the likes of him, I very much doubt that is what jesus had wanted his followers to do! Tamaki isn't the sort of chap to listen to others and as they say pride comes before a fall, many of his sort have ended up on the scrape heap!
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« Reply #231 on: November 09, 2009, 08:56:22 pm »

So faol instead of hiding away like our resident choochoo driver who incidentally is a failed Roman C why dont you join up and show Brian T the way to go?

Gosh, you really make a lot of assumptions don't you.

What are you then - Harvest? AOG? Jehovah's Witness? Scientologist? Baptist? Brethren? Destiny?

I bet you aren't Mormon or Baha'i Faith.
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Calliope
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« Reply #232 on: November 09, 2009, 09:01:05 pm »

and definitely not a witch
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Kiwithrottlejockey
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« Reply #233 on: November 09, 2009, 10:54:54 pm »


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Sir Blodsnogger
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« Reply #234 on: November 10, 2009, 03:29:25 am »

ssweetpeas LOL
i am not bahai nor ehindi nor Mornon. That was a nice guess. Gosh you must know a lot to make such assumptions.

Would you say that Brian T needs a little in the area of direction? Or is perfected already.
Beware your answer wil show how much you know about religiosity.


Faol thanks for boasting about your mind 'springing' at anything really. How do you get it to spring faol - do you get the missus to give you a whack on the head with a 4 x 2.
PERHAPS IT WOULD HELP IF YOU ASKED A CHIPPIE to give you wack. Girls are so weak y'know.
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AnFaolchudubh
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« Reply #235 on: November 10, 2009, 04:51:53 am »

ssweetpeas LOL
i am not bahai nor ehindi nor Mornon. That was a nice guess. Gosh you must know a lot to make such assumptions.

Would you say that Brian T needs a little in the area of direction? Or is perfected already.
Beware your answer wil show how much you know about religiosity.


Faol thanks for boasting about your mind 'springing' at anything really. How do you get it to spring faol - do you get the missus to give you a whack on the head with a 4 x 2.
PERHAPS IT WOULD HELP IF YOU ASKED A CHIPPIE to give you wack. Girls are so weak y'know.

You really have a sad life gommie, it seems that all you can do is jump to unfounded assumptions which let you to make false claims and accusation, you can't even stick to the topic you always end up making personal attacks instead of debating the topic in hand which is quite pathetic, you really are pityful, oh well such is life!
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R. S. OhAllmurain
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« Reply #236 on: November 13, 2009, 07:52:05 pm »

You dazza are the one who populated other peoples comments in the section you dedicated to 'gommie'. There are no comments from that pure soul
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« Reply #237 on: November 14, 2009, 06:52:58 am »


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Sir Blodsnogger
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« Reply #238 on: November 14, 2009, 12:51:16 pm »

Faol thanks for boasting about your mind 'springing' at anything really. How do you get it to spring faol - do you get the missus to give you a whack on the head with a 4 x 2.
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AnFaolchudubh
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« Reply #239 on: November 14, 2009, 02:30:15 pm »

Faol thanks for boasting about your mind 'springing' at anything really. How do you get it to spring faol - do you get the missus to give you a whack on the head with a 4 x 2.

Yawn... I see the uneducated born again gommie is out and about, posting his normal assumption filled waffle and dribble! Guess at least he has a hobby.
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R. S. OhAllmurain
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« Reply #240 on: November 14, 2009, 03:34:43 pm »

Happy Christmas faol
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« Reply #241 on: November 14, 2009, 04:00:04 pm »

Guess at least he has a hobby.

I guess we should be happy for her....

 Smiley
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Sir Blodsnogger
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« Reply #242 on: November 16, 2009, 01:02:25 am »

Watch yer mouth dazza
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« Reply #243 on: November 16, 2009, 02:52:58 am »

Guess at least he has a hobby.

I guess we should be happy for her....

 Smiley

Night raider is a silly moaning old  toothless bitch.
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Sir Blodsnogger
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« Reply #244 on: November 16, 2009, 05:35:55 am »

Wash yer mouth out you ugly sex maniac
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Kiwithrottlejockey
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« Reply #245 on: March 03, 2010, 08:46:55 pm »


Destiny split triggers exodus

By VAIMOANA TAPALEAO - The New Zealand Herald | 4:00AM - Tuesday, March 02, 2010

Pastor Andrew Stock (left) and more than half of his congregation are believed to have left Brian Tamaki's Destiny Church rather than swear loyalty to him. — Photos: Glenn Jeffrey.
Pastor Andrew Stock (left) and more than half of his congregation are believed to have left
Brian Tamaki's Destiny Church rather than swear loyalty to him. — Photos: Glenn Jeffrey.


Destiny Church ministers and leaders are heading to its Brisbane branch after more than half the congregation — including its pastor — walked out.

Bishop Brian Tamaki, who founded the church in New Zealand in 1998, is expected to be among those heading to Australia this week after the resignation of Pastor Andrew Stock.

Members of the Destiny Church in Brisbane, who were at Sunday's service, contacted the Herald yesterday.

It is believed Pastor Stock — who has been at the Brisbane branch pulpit for about three years — withdrew from his role because a newly introduced covenant went against his beliefs, a member said.

"He decided it was time [to withdraw as pastor]. He believed the covenant was wrong. It is simple — if you know you are sinning, you don't want to be preaching from the pulpit."

The member said the covenant told members to "give it heaps" as they worked towards a $3 million project which included building a $1.3 million budget to go towards putting Bishop Tamaki on TVNZ every morning, from Monday to Friday.

The covenant also encouraged members to go without coffee, takeaways and Sky TV for up to seven months to help give more in their church tithes.

The church member, who did not want to be named for fear of repercussions, said up to 70 people of the just over 100-strong congregation followed Pastor Andrew Stock, after a four-minute speech, as he walked out of the church with his family.

Destiny Church spokeswoman Janine Cardno said the church was now going through a process.

"The church like any employer is bound by confidentiality and has to work through the processes required."

In regards to the issue of the covenant, Ms Cardno said: "We are no different to any other church who is fundraising for building projects or [with] community outreach efforts to donate to, if people so desire. All contributions are always purely voluntary."

The church member who contacted the Herald said many in the congregation felt the covenant was going against the Gospel.

"It was a money-making scheme. All the people who make covenant with Bishop Tamaki have to buy a $300 ring.

"You might think I'm stupid for going into the church in the first place. But I [only] found out it was a cult after I went in."

The member said it was widely known that all Destiny Church pastors had to sign a contract.

In that contract, it said if they were to withdraw as a pastor they were forbidden to pastor at any other church for two years and their new church could not be less than 50km from a Destiny Church.


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10629377



It's a cash cult, say Destiny's walk-outs

By VAIMOANA TAPALEAO - The New Zealand Herald | 4:00AM - Wednesday, March 03, 2010

Brian Tamaki. — Photo: Alan Gibson.
Brian Tamaki. — Photo: Alan Gibson.

Destiny Church has been attacked by former members who say it is nothing more than a money-making venture.

Dozens of ex-Destiny members contacted the Herald after yesterday's story about dissension in the Brisbane branch.

More than half the Destiny Church in Brisbane — including its pastor, Andrew Stock — walked out of the service on Sunday, saying they believed the church was no longer following the Gospel.

Those who contacted the Herald supported the walkout, saying the church was a money-making cult.

"This incident is the closest we have come to getting a genuine ‘tell it like it is’ picture of the Destiny corporation," a former member said.

Pastor Stock, his wife Helen and more than half the just over 100-member Brisbane congregation walked out on the church over several issues, including money and a new covenant which they said went against the Gospel.

That covenant included buying a $300 signet ring and encouraging churchgoers to stop buying coffee and give up Sky TV so they could give more money to the church.

It also said up to $1.3 million would be put aside to fund Bishop Brian Tamaki — who founded the church in Auckland in 1998 — appearing on his own television programme every weekday.


Destiny Church Cult

Former Destiny church-goer Agnes Granada said she left Auckland's Mount Wellington branch because "I started getting uncomfortable".

Ms Granada, who attended services for five years, said moves such as making the $300 signet ring a compulsory purchase for each member led her to believe Destiny was not a church, but a money-making cult.

"It doesn't reconcile with what Jesus preached — it's going out of context. I myself was uncomfortable with buying a ring for $300," she said.

"God is spiritual and [Bishop Tamaki] seems to be doing things materialistically — $300 is two weeks groceries for the average family."

Another member said she had to "walk away from it all and repent" after realising she was attending a cult and not a church.

"Tamaki is moving away from the true faith and is setting up his business empire," she said.

"Where does it say in the Bible that only members wear rings?"

The Brisbane Destiny Church website — which was taken down after the walkout — says the emphasis is on preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom in a contemporary manner, so that people find their true destiny and identity.

A former member who was at the Brisbane walkout said many of those who followed Pastor Stock said they were proud and relieved that the story behind the Destiny Church had "finally" come out.

But other members were afraid because members of the church were trying to "hunt down" the person or persons who leaked details of the walkout to the media.

When the Herald contacted the Destiny Church to speak to Bishop Tamaki, spokeswoman Janine Cardno said she did not know where he was but that he was busy in meetings all day.

But she said he was bound by an employers' contract which dealt with confidential matters, and would not be able to make a comment anyway.


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10629591&pnum=0
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DazzaMc
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« Reply #246 on: March 03, 2010, 10:13:23 pm »

Cult or church?


Now that's a silly question.

All church's are cults - there is absolutely nothing which separates the two, fundamentally they are both the same thing.

 Huh
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Magoo
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« Reply #247 on: March 04, 2010, 05:35:46 am »

Quote
here is absolutely nothing which separates the two, fundamentally they are both the same thing.
I disagree.  You will get a whole lot more from a church (if you want their service)  than you will from a cult and you are not obliged to put a cent in the plate if you don't want to,  and still be welcome.     
It is surprising the number of people who require their local church for christenings, weddings and funerals and there is no charge for the arrangements, consultations or services.   I  think there is a need for such services in the community.   The ladies at our local Presbyterian church laid on the most fantastic luncheon for 100 people at my mothers funeral and there was no charge.   I was merely told that if I chose to make a donation it would be most welcome.    I did that of course and donated a number of pieces of furniture to the lounge area.        There is no need for people like Tamaki who attach themselves like leeches and persuade them that they need to give.
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Magoo
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« Reply #248 on: March 04, 2010, 05:38:13 am »

Oh and don't get me started on JW's.      Roll Eyes
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« Reply #249 on: March 04, 2010, 06:21:26 am »

Cult or church?


Now that's a silly question.

All church's are cults - there is absolutely nothing which separates the two, fundamentally they are both the same thing.

 Huh

That is an incorrect statement. A cult hooks you in and doesn't let go. A cult controls as many aspects of your life as they can get their hands on.

Most christian church denominations are not like that. You can come and go at will, you are asked for a financial contribution but you are not asked for a membership fee (unlike every other club I have come across) but it is up to you how much you give or how often.

I found this on the internet:

Question: "What is the definition of a cult?"

Answer: When we hear the word “cult,” we often think of a group that worships Satan, sacrifices animals, or takes part in evil, bizarre, and pagan rituals. However, in reality, most cults appear much more innocent. The specific Christian definition of a cult is “a religious group that denies one or more of the fundamentals of biblical truth.” In simpler terms, a cult is a group that teaches something that will cause a person to remain unsaved if he/she believes it. As distinct from a religion, a cult is a group that claims to be part of the religion, yet denies essential truth(s) of that religion. A Christian cult is a group that denies one or more of the fundamental truths of Christianity, while still claiming to be Christian.

The two most common teachings of cults are that Jesus was not God and that salvation is not by faith alone. A denial of the deity of Christ results in Jesus’ death not being a sufficient payment for our sins. A denial of salvation by faith alone results in salvation being achieved by our own works, something the Bible vehemently and consistently denies. The two most well-known examples of cults are the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons. Both groups claim to be Christian, yet both deny the deity of Christ and salvation by faith alone. Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons believe many things that are in agreement with or similar to what the Bible teaches. However, the fact that they deny the deity of Christ and preach a salvation by works qualifies them as a cult. Many Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, and members of other cults are “good people” who genuinely believe they hold the truth. As Christians, our hope and prayer must be that many people involved in the cults will see through the lies and will be drawn to the truth of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ alone.
http://www.gotquestions.org/cult-definition.html

I thought that definition put it rather well.[/color]
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