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Cult or church?


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Brownie55
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OK, so what’s the speed of dark?


« on: October 29, 2009, 08:42:23 pm »

Tamaki's 700 'sons' swear oath of loyalty

This is scary article   the guy is clever and has everything sewn up  .

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10605956&pnum=0

The document, entitled Protocols and Requirements Between Spiritual Father & His Spiritual Sons, contains the text of the "covenant oath", the guts of which is that "Above all, we stand here today in the presence of God to enter into this sacred covenant with our man of God, Bishop Brian Tamaki".



The requirements of sonship, the document says, are to give Mr Tamaki obedience and honour, to imitate him and follow his faith and to give him "your loyalty and your strength".

Under "Public Conduct", the sons will in all conversation always speak of Mr Tamaki in a favourable and positive light; and in formal and/or public occasions, they will always address him and his wife, Hannah, first in acknowledgments and addresses at meetings "as a sign of respect to the father of the movement".
"Whenever Bishop speaks all other talking stops: give him your full attention. Be careful not to cut in on him when he is speaking and ensure others don't either.

Under "Supporting Bishop's Function & Ministry", the "sons" are encouraged to find out Mr Tamaki's speaking itinerary and travel to other churches and engagements to support him, because a team of men around their bishop "reflects his importance to them".

They must never tolerate anyone (regardless of who they are) speaking or talking critically of Mr Tamaki and his wife/family or the church. "You are not only to stop them in their tracks but warn them that they criticise you when they criticise Bishop."


And on and on and on   ......


Cult or church     


CULT!!









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nitpicker1
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« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2009, 09:01:18 pm »


scam
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« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2009, 09:30:09 pm »

Yeh I go with scam too - cult by definition is among other things a means of expressing religious reverence - and IMO any level of expressing religious reverence is a scam.
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Brownie55
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OK, so what’s the speed of dark?


« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2009, 09:32:19 pm »

Life Of Brian...lol might be a movie oneday.
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beaker
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« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2009, 09:39:45 pm »

LOL - given the Meaning of Life is playing right now on Channel 10!

He is a scam artist who has created a cult.  He now has clueless followers who have pledged to protect his honour at all costs.  So no bad mouthing Brian anymore people - otherwise his thugs will be around to break your thumbs!

My cousin and her family are heavily into Destiny.  They have turned against my aunty and cousins because they do not agree with the Destiny way.  My cousin's husband even turned up at her younger sister's house and threatened her to the point where she has not only moved out of the town, but moved islands. 

I'm so hearing smackings of Tommy Davis!  All Brian needs to do is to build up his selection of celebrities
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« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2009, 09:58:41 pm »

im waiting for the day that a sex scandal erupts ...

i know of a young maori guy [ now 24 ] but at aged 14 was having sex with his "pastor" a much older male ...

unfortunately x bad boy Bishop Brian latched on to his own people and offered them heaps but delivers little whilst living the high live in Pariti Drive ...

another Maori ripping off his own ...

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« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2009, 10:27:25 pm »

Like all cult leaders Tamaki has chosen the most vulnerable people to be his disciples. He offers them everything and nothing at the same time. I am worried what will happen when those people are asked to do something radical.
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Brownie55
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OK, so what’s the speed of dark?


« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2009, 10:33:25 pm »

Quote
My cousin's husband even turned up at her younger sister's house and threatened her to the point where she has not only moved out of the town, but moved islands. 

Bloody hell had she criticised the bishop? 
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« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2009, 10:38:47 pm »

There is little difference tween this gang and the gangs that most of his following have been part of.
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Brownie55
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OK, so what’s the speed of dark?


« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2009, 10:43:46 pm »

Quote
There is little difference tween this gang and the gangs that most of his following have been part of.

Not sure if I agree with this LL..

If I was walking down a dark alley at night I think I would rather meet one of Destiny's lil soldiers than a patched gang member.  I suppose in one way if he can convert gang members he certainly has 'something'  Pity his ego got in the way of making a real difference.
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« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2009, 10:48:34 pm »

Quote
There is little difference tween this gang and the gangs that most of his following have been part of.

Not sure if I agree with this LL..

If I was walking down a dark alley at night I think I would rather meet one of Destiny's lil soldiers than a patched gang member.  I suppose in one way if he can convert gang members he certainly has 'something'  Pity his ego got in the way of making a real difference.

There is little difference - the little difference is Tamaki's followers are filled with love and caring - gang members arnt.  Many of his following are ex gang members.  IMO that is the only difference.  Whether we believe it or not the reasons for belonging are the same - unity - family etc.
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« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2009, 10:57:35 pm »

cult    wondering what the  loon is  up  too  other than making himself rich
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« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2009, 11:01:42 pm »

Quote
My cousin's husband even turned up at her younger sister's house and threatened her to the point where she has not only moved out of the town, but moved islands. 

Bloody hell had she criticised the bishop? 

Worse, one of the Destiny Loony cousin's 10 children (I kid you not) moved out of home and went and stayed with his aunty (the one that left town).  She apparently disrespected the loonies because she took in their wayward son!
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« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2009, 11:16:33 pm »

Oath no big deal, Tamaki says



Destiny Church leader Brian Tamaki says he does not understand the "ruckus" over a new oath describing him as a "spiritual father" and "king".

The self-proclaimed bishop gave himself another spiritual role at Destiny's annual conference in Auckland last weekend when he proclaimed himself the church's spiritual father and designated 700 men of the church his spiritual sons.

The men swore a "covenant oath" of loyalty and obedience to Mr Tamaki and were given a "covenant ring" to wear on their right hands, The New Zealand Herald reported today.

The covenant was described as "a solemn oath of commitment that is binding, enduring and unbreakable".

The spiritual sons must always be respectful and speak of Mr Tamaki in a favourable and positive light.

Whenever Mr Tamaki speaks all other talking must stop, the newspaper said.

The sons must never openly disagree with Mr Tamaki in front of others and must not become familiar which could lead to contempt.

The covenant also required the sons to stand when the bishop and his wife entered a room and not to begin eating before him.

Mr Tamaki said the covenant was similar to protocols found in "most organisations".

"These are by no means out of the way. We believe that they are respectful and they are things that the men themselves have put together with the leaders," he told TVNZ's Close Up.

Some examples from the covenant had been taken out of context and he had never referred to himself as a king, he said.

"No, I've never proclaimed myself as a king, it's difficult enough being a bishop."

Mr Tamaki said the church had helped many men and the covenant was a positive thing.

"You would think this a breath of good news, positively, over 700 men who represent families who've taken a covenant to be better husbands to their wives, better fathers to their children and better men all round - what's the ruckus?"

Destiny Church member Richard Lewis, who drafted the covenant, said the document put in writing a culture that already existed within the church.

"If you're going to look at that document you need to measure that against the lives of the men who have come into Destiny," he said.

He denied Destiny was a cult.

"We're an open book".

However, Mark Vrankovich, spokesman for Cultwatch, an organisation that monitors cults, said the covenant was about making Mr Tamaki look like "a big man".

"Within this document we see here the very mechanism by which cults go askew," he said.

Christians were sick of being identified with Mr Tamaki and the Destiny Church, he said.

Mr Vrankovich also told TV3's Campbell Live that Mr Tamaki was "taking a kingship position".

"I mean here you have a man who thinks he is a biblical character, in this case King David, and he's building himself an army of mighty men who will do want he wants. I have grave concerns for that, grave concerns."

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/6404900/oath-no-big-deal-tamaki-says/
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Brownie55
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« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2009, 11:21:13 pm »

Who saw him walk all over Mark sainsbury on CloseUp tonight.  Needed a much much stronger interviewer than ol Mark.

But over at tv3    :

As part of his long address, Bishop Tamaki said to the gathered men:

“Who is going to touch my people? Who is going to steer your children? Who is going to try and put a disease upon you if I already pre-programmed, pre-designed it? God. I am God, I am not just some man or spirit, I am god.”
James, another member of the congregation spoke about what he had expected from the ‘Momentum’ event.

“For the first time in history something very special was going to happen. I thought it was to do with the rings but it was more to do with the fact that you have to address him now as the king ‘cause there is a king that is coming, the chosen and he is the kind and his church is saying all the other churches have failed and his has been chosen by God and that’s what he announced.”

http://www.3news.co.nz/Destiny-Churchs-inner-workings-revealed-in-secret-video/tabid/817/articleID/127420/cat/221/Default.aspx
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beaker
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« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2009, 12:06:34 am »

Oath no big deal, Tamaki says


Yeah, and I'm sure Moses thought nothing of parting the Red Sea
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« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2009, 12:09:21 am »

Don't wait for others to do it. It is a sign of your love and respect for him: at times give gifts to him and/or Ps Hannah. A gift means many things - love, honour and blessing them: they will feel appreciated."

We should worship you ? Grin

The men are exhorted to be protective of Mr Tamaki and his family. The protocol says he "will be more criticised, scrutinised and demonised than most others because of who he is and what he carries".

"You will hear all sorts of statements and opinions but you must be prepared to ignore them and consistently hold him in the same high regard no matter what you hear."


So if they say your church is a cult we wont believe it ?

Somewhat surprisingly, the protocol says that Mr Tamaki is human and does make mistakes.


However, the sons must "be prepared to defend against any problems arising out of his mistakes.

So he's not perfect ?

A loyal man is supposed to 'cushion' the effect of a mistake on Bishop and to protect him. NEVER intentionally expose his weakness."

Don't worry boss we keep it top secret

It says Mr Tamaki may downplay and even discourage "sons" in overtly honouring him, "BUT that should never stop the men from doing what is honourable and what is in their heart to do".

So if he says not to give him your money he really means give it

A few thousand people paying $30 each is big money and then they also pass the plate around as well.
Yep its great money making cult and also he has a army of zombie followers who are trained not to question whatever he says
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« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2009, 12:17:30 am »

someone told me it was 10% of their gross earnings!  That's a lot of dosh for the families he targets.
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Brownie55
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OK, so what’s the speed of dark?


« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2009, 12:49:18 am »

Quote
The men are exhorted to be protective of Mr Tamaki and his family. The protocol says he "will be more criticised, scrutinised and demonised than most others because of who he is and what he carries".

"You will hear all sorts of statements and opinions but you must be prepared to ignore them and consistently hold him in the same high regard no matter what you hear."

No use talking to any of them after that bit is it? 
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« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2009, 12:51:44 am »

If he makes his followers do the things he says or else,
He seems to have all his bases covered. He said if he makes a mistake
his people must not draw attention to it or show his weakness.
So does that mean when he says god is working through him that god might be making a mistake.
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« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2009, 12:56:11 am »

They must never tolerate anyone (regardless of who they are) speaking or talking critically of Mr Tamaki and his wife/family or the church. "You are not only to stop them in their tracks but warn them that they criticise you when they criticise Bishop."

Please God can I be a king Huh
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Brownie55
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OK, so what’s the speed of dark?


« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2009, 01:18:46 am »

Why are all these cults started by men.?

has there ever been a woman cult leader?
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« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2009, 06:32:22 am »

cult    wondering what the  loon is  up  too  other than making himself rich

I think a lot are wondering what he is up to.

The Tamaki mansion at Maraetai has just been put on the market.
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« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2009, 06:34:21 am »

He is a scamming ratbag.     He seems to attract people who cannot think for themselves.
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« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2009, 06:44:26 am »

You know the saying, 'power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely", this is so true in the case of Brian Tamiki, (I refuse to call him a bishop) He is going mad with the power he has over his followers, he is not that much different than Adolf Hitler or Jim Jones, or even Charles Manson, they were adored by their followers too, and willing to do anything for them, no matter how atrocious as history has shown.

This man preaches hatred and intolerance, and the members of his church are so brain-washed they can't see what he is doing. This is going to end up in tragedy somewhere down the line.

I think the media should stop calling him bishop too, they are just pandering to him by accepting the title, we could all call ourselves bishops, canons, popes or kings  if we chose to but nobody would accept it.

Imo this man is dangerous.
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