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Tsunami coming your way?

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Lovelee
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« Reply #100 on: October 01, 2009, 03:31:57 pm »

They did a fantastic job.


I'll expand on that statement later - my hackles are still up a tad towards anyone who suggests they didn't/don't do a good job. It's pretty clear most of them have no idea what they are talking about.


The main problem is with the media.
They need to be locked down when events like that happen - it needs to be illegal for them to say anything other than what comes from CD concerning the events. They jump to fast to be the first to get the stories out.

Local Radio stations here in Jafaland actually canceled the warnings BEFORE CD did....  only to have CD reissue the warnings 10 minutes later.
Such behavior puts peoples lives in grave danger and causes great confusion. They should be held accountable for that in any review.


For many apathy already exists - but that's their problem. Survival of the fittest and all.


If people want better systems in place then how about funding a few more buoys for the area north of NZ?

At this stage until it hits North Cape or East Cape it's all guess work...
Although the Kermadec's have helped a bit.

 Lips sealed

Oddly enough there is 2 prominent media people who are claiming to have known more about what was happening yesterday than CD.  Paul Blabbermouth Henry reckons he did a great job keeping people informed, and Mike Blabbermouth Laws claims he was able to tell NZ before 10am that all was safe, no need to evacuate.  Both were receiving information from 'callers' in Gisborne saying there was nothing happening at trheir end so all was safe.

You are right Daz they should be reprimanded for jumping the gun, however, I think perhaps CD could have released an all clear sooner than they did.  For it to even have got to a stage where people in Raglan were told to evacuate is simply dumb and stupid, that instruction came from CD - I could understand it if Ragtown was on the east coast.
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« Reply #101 on: October 01, 2009, 03:40:57 pm »

This took me a wee while to find but at least now I know what it is and how to react when we hear it.

http://www.waitakere.govt.nz/abtcit/cp/pdf/2008/cd-wnspecedition.pdf

There must be some at Hobsonville - that is less that 1km away as the crow flies.
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« Reply #102 on: October 01, 2009, 03:43:13 pm »

Only in New Zealand.
This is another first in the world.

Only New Zealand would think to dig out a great big hole and call it a bunker in reclaimed sea-land at water level for a disaster recovery bunker.
What a pack of arse holes. REALLY!
Did they think that a tsunami could fill their hole and make it dead in 1 minute
No
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« Reply #103 on: October 01, 2009, 03:52:41 pm »

A central North island region is scrapping its tsunami text alert system after about 400 people got the message three hours late.
The move by Horizons Regional Council, which covers from Horowhenua to Ruapehu, comes as the Government plans to review New Zealand's Civil Defence response to yesterday's tsunami warning after confusion.

The council's warning text: "Estimated wave East Cape and Mt Maunganui 1m-0922. Stay tuned to local media for more information," was delivered about 11.56am.

Emergency services manager Shane Bayley immediately cancelled the free text service run by OPTN after complaints.

"It's just not good enough," he told the Manawatu Standard.

The council sent an apologetic text about 12.30pm: "The performance of the OPTN system this morning was not satisfactory. We will be investigating."

Acting Prime Minister Bill English said the Government was "generally happy" with the civil defence response but a number of vital agencies received confused warnings or no information at all.


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"There was, I gather, a bit of confusion which can happen when an unexpected event happens very fast," he said today.

"We will be looking back at how it was handled once the civil defence position winds right down."

Mr English said he was surprised that when people were warned they went to the beaches which meant staff had to be deployed to get them to go home.

The emergency response body has been criticised after local media and one airport were left in the dark yesterday.

Civil Defence issued a tsunami warning about an hour after the 8.3 magnitude quake off Samoa, which hit at 6.48am.

It downgraded it to a threat advisory shortly after 11am.

State broadcaster Radio New Zealand reported that a special phone hotline in its newsroom, specifically for civil defence emergencies, did not ring.

Immediate inquiries were met with an answerphone which recommended ringing after 8am.

Television NZ also reported problems about mixed messages from Civil Defence on its Breakfast programme.

"We are classifying a tsunami but we are classifying those at the moment as rumour, we haven't got them confirmed," Colin Feslier told the show, which contradicted what news reports were broadcasting at the time.

Mr Feslier continued to give vague responses when pressed, the broadcaster reported.

Wellington International Airport was also overlooked in the alert despite it being a lifeline utility, Radio New Zealand reported.

Organisations such as media, electricity and telecommunications entities are legally required to continue operating in an emergency.

Wellington Airport was not notified about the tsunami alerts and calls to the Ministry of Civil Defence and the local Emergency Management Office also drew blanks, said operations manager John Barnden.

Civil Defence Minister John Carter said the response was not good enough and a review would show that lessons could be learnt.

The network, from a local government perspective, did work well, but communications needed to be improved, he said.

In the regions it was largely up for regional civil defence controllers to set up and manage warnings in their areas.

Civil defence systems were continually improving and lessons learned, Mr Carter said.

"It's an imprecise art. It's an act of nature and we do our best, obviously not good enough and we will be responding to it.

"I think Civil Defence weren't as helpful as they could have been in communicating with the media in the early stages."

Reports that Wellington Airport was not warned were a concern and that had to be sorted out, he said.

In 2006 Civil Defence was criticised for being slow and poorly organised after its response to a potential tsunami.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10600712&ref=rss

Frankly I think we'll be lucky if we ever get a destructive tsunami  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #104 on: October 01, 2009, 03:56:01 pm »

You are right Daz they should be reprimanded for jumping the gun, however, I think perhaps CD could have released an all clear sooner than they did.  For it to even have got to a stage where people in Raglan were told to evacuate is simply dumb and stupid, that instruction came from CD - I could understand it if Ragtown was on the east coast.

Nope - The standard advice given (globally) is that if after 2 hours no wave is seen then it's safe to turn your back - however in this case something strange happened which we don't yet fully understand and the main wave took 2 hours longer to arrive than expected. It should ALWAYS be left to CD (who has access to the latest data from the tools at their disposal) to make the calls. The 1st all clear was issued following standard advice - then just 10 min after that a 1 meter wave was detected at Raoul Island, forcing the new alert.

There is no way anyone else other than CD (and people like me) could have known that, and there is no way anyone can expect them to know that because there are no data collection points in-between Samoa and Raoul Island. As it turns out it wasn't safe until around 2pm - a VERY long time after 10am.

People in Raglan should have been placed on high alert but Raglan get's plenty of warning as the east coast get's hit first.


Callers in Gisborne.... lol... what a joke....
Would they even recognize a tidal surge if they saw one?!


One thing which I found really funny was the first alert was for a 1 meter wave - people took it seriously (good) and everything went to plan. The 2nd warning was also for a 1 meter wave but for some reason the media decided it wasn't anything to worry about - with one lady reporting live on TV standing on a beach and talking as if it was a non event BEFORE the 2nd warnings ETA.

 Huh

CD did a good job, the police and local authorities (up here at least) were fantastic - but both have been let down by the media.


We need new laws which lock the media into emergency mode in events like this.



In saying that I totally support the review - a review should be conducted after EVERY event like this.
There will always be areas which could do with fine tuning.

 Smiley
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« Reply #105 on: October 01, 2009, 03:57:57 pm »

This took me a wee while to find but at least now I know what it is and how to react when we hear it.

http://www.waitakere.govt.nz/abtcit/cp/pdf/2008/cd-wnspecedition.pdf

There must be some at Hobsonville - that is less that 1km away as the crow flies.

Swell done SweetPea.
Let all your friends know as well.

And be thankful nothing eventuated yesterday BEFORE you knew all this...

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« Reply #106 on: October 01, 2009, 04:04:08 pm »

I'll tell you what Daz if a tsunami ever hits Raglan or here, I'll eat my hat!!  Theres no chance.
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« Reply #107 on: October 01, 2009, 04:10:43 pm »

There's no chance.

Well I hope your hat is eatable.

Although your probably safe given the rarity of these events....

 Wink


Just to be clear though - your harbor presents more of a risk than I think you're give it credit for.
 Smiley

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« Reply #108 on: October 01, 2009, 04:13:40 pm »

Nah - its west opening and the mouth is so tiny a whale couldnt get into it  Grin

Safest, cleanest and most pristine harbour in the country.
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« Reply #109 on: October 01, 2009, 04:17:01 pm »

Prime Minister Feleti Vaka'uta Sevele's press secretary Lopeti Senituli told nzherald.co.nz "about 90 per cent" of the island's housing had been destroyed.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10600715&ref=rss
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« Reply #110 on: October 01, 2009, 04:31:34 pm »

its west opening

Remember the wave from Indonesia came down the Indian Ocean, bounced off Antarctica and then up past NZ - as far north as Japan?

Safest, cleanest and most pristine harbour in the country.

Lol... it would be cleaner after a bit of a flush out!

 Grin
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« Reply #111 on: October 01, 2009, 05:19:56 pm »

its west opening

Remember the wave from Indonesia came down the Indian Ocean, bounced off Antarctica and then up past NZ - as far north as Japan?

Safest, cleanest and most pristine harbour in the country.

Lol... it would be cleaner after a bit of a flush out!

 Grin

Yeh that Indo one went down the west coast - down - our entrance faces direct west - that part of the island lies north remember, the coast that is.  We saw that ripple hehe - for us to get something in it would have to come up the island and thats hardly likely.  And how can you clean an already clean harbour  Grin
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« Reply #112 on: October 01, 2009, 09:14:47 pm »

How the wave dissipated across the Pacific....

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« Reply #113 on: October 01, 2009, 09:27:30 pm »

You are right Daz they should be reprimanded for jumping the gun, however, I think perhaps CD could have released an all clear sooner than they did.  For it to even have got to a stage where people in Raglan were told to evacuate is simply dumb and stupid, that instruction came from CD - I could understand it if Ragtown was on the east coast.

Nope - The standard advice given (globally) is that if after 2 hours no wave is seen then it's safe to turn your back - however in this case something strange happened which we don't yet fully understand and the main wave took 2 hours longer to arrive than expected. It should ALWAYS be left to CD (who has access to the latest data from the tools at their disposal) to make the calls. The 1st all clear was issued following standard advice - then just 10 min after that a 1 meter wave was detected at Raoul Island, forcing the new alert.

There is no way anyone else other than CD (and people like me) could have known that, and there is no way anyone can expect them to know that because there are no data collection points in-between Samoa and Raoul Island. As it turns out it wasn't safe until around 2pm - a VERY long time after 10am.

People in Raglan should have been placed on high alert but Raglan get's plenty of warning as the east coast get's hit first.


Callers in Gisborne.... lol... what a joke....
Would they even recognize a tidal surge if they saw one?!


One thing which I found really funny was the first alert was for a 1 meter wave - people took it seriously (good) and everything went to plan. The 2nd warning was also for a 1 meter wave but for some reason the media decided it wasn't anything to worry about - with one lady reporting live on TV standing on a beach and talking as if it was a non event BEFORE the 2nd warnings ETA.

 Huh

CD did a good job, the police and local authorities (up here at least) were fantastic - but both have been let down by the media.


We need new laws which lock the media into emergency mode in events like this.



In saying that I totally support the review - a review should be conducted after EVERY event like this.
There will always be areas which could do with fine tuning.

 Smiley

When we have the CD playing worst possiblities down and the Police preparing for worst case scenarios's we will continue to have confusion.

The dickwick CD person on Good morning today was hopeless and yes the media knew more than he did.  They were getting their media news from the UK.

The media can only report what they see, hear or are told.
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« Reply #114 on: October 02, 2009, 06:00:31 am »

Dazza
One favour please
Will you get them to move the Beehive and its sea level bunker up the hill
Tsunamis will drown the whole lot one day
Thank you
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« Reply #115 on: October 02, 2009, 06:17:25 am »


Quote
The media can only report what they see, hear or are told,
and seem to be under no obligation to confirm the accuracy of their information.

I heard that the reason for the premature lifting of the emergency and it's closely followed reinstatement was because the tsunami sensor buoy nearest to Raoul Island had been wiped out by the first wave, and the second was actually reported manually from someone on the island.

Now has the accuracy of that been confirmed or denied?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Dazza, please ignore Blod's request that you relocate the beehive and it's bunker.

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« Reply #116 on: October 02, 2009, 07:11:52 am »

Ok dazza if you refuse to move the beehive and the bunker to a safe spot above sea level will you please make a plan with our australian neighbours to come run the country when the beehive lot gets itself 6 fathoms under.

Thank you
Alll of NZ will then say 'I told you to move the blardy beehive dazza'.
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« Reply #117 on: October 02, 2009, 07:59:45 am »

LOL Who seriously thinks the CD centre is in danger of being swamped?

Its one of the safest buildings in Wellington isnt it?
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« Reply #118 on: October 02, 2009, 08:08:33 am »

The NCMC is situated below ground in the Beehive (Parliament buildings) sub-basement, contained within the outer perimeter of the building. Its design is aimed at maximum self-sustainability in the event of a major Wellington earthquake or other local disasters and service failures. These measures and facilities include:
Seismic protection to withstand earthquake loadings associated with a MMX (Modified Mercalli Ten) event.
Emergency water supply from a 120,000-litre water tank.
Emergency power supply through two standby diesel generators and an additional battery system for emergency lighting.
An independent IT network supported by its own servers and back-up capabilities.
An independent telecommunications system, backed up by alternative communication links such as satellite telephone and HF radio systems.
An independent air conditioning and filtering system.
Security systems.
Fully equipped generic operations areas, offices and meeting/conference facilities.
A fully equipped cafeteria capable of catering for up to 100 persons at a time. Some basic emergency food supplies are carried.
Sleeping accommodation, ablution and first aid facilities.


http://www.civildefence.govt.nz/memwebsite.nsf/wpg_URL/About-the-Ministry-What-we-do-National-Crisis-Management-Centre?OpenDocument
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« Reply #119 on: October 02, 2009, 01:50:38 pm »

== PRELIMINARY EARTHQUAKE REPORT ==

***This event supersedes event AT00444566.


Region:                            TONGA
Geographic coordinates:            16.579S, 173.273W
Magnitude:                        6.3 Mw
Depth:                            10 km


Universal Time (UTC):              2 Oct 2009  01:07:39
Time near the Epicenter:           2 Oct 2009  14:07:39
Local standard time in your area:  2 Oct 2009  13:07:39

Location with respect to nearby cities:
242 km (151 miles) NNE (18 degrees) of Neiafu, Tonga 
350 km (217 miles) SSW (208 degrees) of APIA, Samoa
377 km (234 miles) SW (227 degrees) of PAGO PAGO, American Samoa
2521 km (1566 miles) W (269 degrees) of PAPEETE, Tahiti, French Polynesia
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« Reply #120 on: October 02, 2009, 02:02:43 pm »



 Smiley
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« Reply #121 on: October 03, 2009, 07:56:30 am »

"I got my elderly mother-in-law and daughter into the van and we drove towards the bank. Halfway down, I saw the big wave coming towards us."

The water simply lifted up the bank, and pushed it towards the road, she said.

"All I can do was to go into reverse gear, put my foot to the floor, picked up all the people running on the road and headed towards the high ground.

"The wave was about 10 metres behind us. I just kept praying and asked God for clarity and trying to keep the van in control.

After depositing the others in "a safe high place", Ms Lutui returned to see if she could help others.

"All I could see was ruin."

But a day after the tsunami, she found her bank's safe poking up in the sea at low tide.

"I opened it and the money cash boxes were still intact. Everything inside was soaking wet. I have locked all the money and it's in the FWC [church] safe ... and will recount the money this morning."

Her email indicates that she is keen to get the bank business under way again.

"Appreciate all the office stationaries to come on the next [ship] so we could start up by next week."

That attitude was typical of Ms Lutui, who had volunteered to go to the remote Hihifo branch because she wanted to serve the community, her boss Simione Sefanaia said.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10601043&ref=rss



Samoan beach fales in areas worst-hit by this week's tsunami were a model for Pacific development, breathing life into rural areas and giving young Samoans something to stay for.

That was until Wednesday .

Now some villagers do not know if they can bear to rebuild their livelihoods - though tourism experts say it is the mainstay of the local economy.

Regina Scheyvens, a Massey University researcher who specialises in Pacific tourism and economic development, said tourism was the main source of income for villages and it was sad to hear survivors say they didnot know if they would or could rebuild.

She published a study this year extolling the virtues of beach fales in Lalomanu and other villages in the south and southeast of the main island, Upolu - the areas worst hit by the tsunami.

Officials have put the preliminary cost of damage to resorts, family homes, roads, powerlines and water supplies at US$36 million ($50.4 million) and rising, leaving aside the human toll of the dead.

Dr Scheyvens said the beach fale industry "was ... giving Samoan families the opportunity to have a sustainable livelihood while living in their home area".

"Tourism in Samoa was something special. It wasn't ever the rich, white tourists who go and sit on a sun lounger by the pool and snap their fingers and expect [to be served]."

Brent Thomas, retail director at the House of Travel, said based on previous disasters in other countries, bookings in parts of Samoa not damaged by the tsunami would bounce back within six weeks. How the damaged parts fared would depend on how quickly devastated infrastructure could be rebuilt.

"Until major infrastructure is rebuilt you're going to have difficulty getting bookings."

Dr Scheyvens said tourism was Samoa's biggest earner, estimated at US$70 million a year. In the past two years Samoa had risen through the ranks to become the third most popular destination in the Pacific.

Before the disaster elders were rapt to see young people choosing to stay and work at home, rather than leaving for Apia, Auckland or Sydney.

She said it was a much better model for locals than the large resorts in countries such as Fiji.

"These were small-scale family-owned establishments ... they were basic but comfortable beach fales and they attracted a different sort of tourist," she said. "People ended up feeling like a part of the family."

Those lasting connections could help rebuild the industry. "I think tourists will go back once they realise they can make a contribution."

Dr Scheyvens, who studied the Maldives after the 2004 tsunami, said tourist numbers would be well down for a year before recovering fully.

"As long as there is no second disaster, people will be okay."

About 40 per cent of annual tourist demand was diaspora returning to visit family and friends and that would not fall away, she said.

Rebuilding efforts might consider moving accommodation to higher land, but tourists loved the beachfront fales, she said.

The National Disaster Council said the worst damage was to resorts, family homes and community buildings, roads, powerlines and water supply located along the coastline of the affected areas. A thousand families were homeless.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10601032&ref=rss
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« Reply #122 on: October 03, 2009, 12:14:47 pm »

Our system passes, but only just

On the beaches, the system largely worked.

In the Bay of Plenty, a man who hadn't heard about the tsunami in Samoa was at the beach with his children when a helicopter flew overhead and a broadcast message ordered people to leave.

Around the country, police and emergency staff were shepherding people back from beaches and in some areas communities were evacuated.

But the overall impression in the public mind was confusion.

National media were getting reports of devastation in Samoa, but couldn't get a clear idea from Civil Defence as to how concerned we should be about a possible tsunami, or what people in coastal areas should do.

The Government says the response was generally good, but not good enough and has ordered a review.

Scientists around the Pacific scrambled to action soon after the earthquake hit near Samoa at 6.48am, waiting to see what the sea would do.

In Hawaii, the Pacific Tsunami Warning Centre began sending warnings and alerts. In Wellington staff at GNS Science were analysing their data and they began sending information to the Ministry of Civil Defence and Emergency Management.

The ministry analysed the information from both sources and sent out its own alerts; in this case a tsunami warning was sent to local civil defence groups.

The responsibility about what to do next lay with those groups who each had their own plans.

Where alerts were received local plans were activated - hence the man in the Bay of Plenty being ordered to leave the beach.

Still, John Hamilton, the man in charge of the Civil Defence headquarters in Wellington - and director of the civil defence ministry - gives the overall response only a C+.

The system passed its first big test since tsunami awareness was hugely increased by the disastrous Boxing Day tsunami of 2004 in south-east Asia Thailand - but only just.

What seems to have gone majorly wrong is communication, and that's no small problem.

The media is important in an emergency, yet national radio and television could not get through to the ministry and found spokespeople confusing.

Mr Hamilton yesterday said his department knew they could do better. In general, the right things were done and the right people activated for a response, he said. But the response was not fast enough.

Some of the information distributed to the public could have been clearer and messages better co-ordinated.

But when you plan for a crisis, he explains, you know you need to be prepared to be overwhelmed.

That is what a crisis is, he says.

Dealing with a disaster has periods of success and periods in which goals are not achieved.

"The initial stages of the crisis is never entirely successful as there is much confusion and uncertainty.

"It takes time to organise your resources and get on top of what's happening. That's what happened on Wednesday."

Some tsunami, such as those originating off South America, take 12 hours to reach New Zealand, giving time for analysis and warnings.

A regional tsunami, like this one, gives less time (one to three hours) and a local tsunami may give no warning at all - as happened in Samoa.

Regardless of which type, the common principle is that each regional civil defence group, within regional councils, has responsibility for implementing its plan to deal with the disaster or threat.

All the local groups, and the ministry, will now be looking at how well they did, he says.

For the Ministry, part of this will be to sift through the many reports of warnings and alerts that were or were not received.

One of Mr Hamilton's immediate actions after the stand down was to begin a review of the messages sent out, including their tone.

"I want them to be unambiguous and readily understood. We can certainly do better there.

"We also need to look at how best to meet media demands. We publish all we know in our formal warnings, but media want more - in some cases expecting us to know more than people in Samoa about conditions there."

Despite all the warnings to stay away from beaches, some people headed to the beaches to take a look.

One of the problems, Mr Hamilton says, is that people expect to get a very exact warning and that is not possible.

No one should risk being in the path of a tsunami, he says, nor should they assume a high vantage point near the sea will be safe, or that they will be able to escape by car.

WATCHING AND WAITING

Wednesday 06.48am
8.3 earthquake 205km south east of Samoa.

07.04
Pacific Tsunami Warning Centre warning email received in Wellington.

07.04
Duty team at Northern Communications Centre prepares initial message. Civil Defence duty officer liaises with Fire Service and calls GNS Science. Public information manager responds to media calls.

07.35
National warning message issued, saying "there is a threat of a damaging tsunami impacting on the New Zealand coastline. The tsunami warning will remain in effect until a cancellation message is issued by the Ministry of Civil Defence and Emergency management."

08.43
Warning 2 estimates wave heights at 1m at the East Coast and Bay of Plenty.

09.58
Warning 3 - Confirming tsunami generated and 1m estimate. Specific warning for beach areas and small boats (the warnings alert regional groups to target those areas).

10. 25
Warning downgraded to national advisory. Noted wave 40cm at East Cape tidal gauge.

11.11
Advisory issued stating that although PTWC had cancelled its warning for New Zealand, a wave reading at Raoul Island indicated a second, larger wave was on its way, potentially arriving at 11.15am and saying there may be further waves.

12.16
Advisory of further waves possible over the next hour sent out.

13.25
Further advisory of more waves and strong currents.

16.10-16.18
Advisory cancelled, mention again of strong currents. Final media release issued.


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10600984&pnum=2
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« Reply #123 on: October 03, 2009, 01:40:43 pm »


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« Reply #124 on: October 03, 2009, 01:41:06 pm »


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