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Will David Bain get Compensation??????

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Author Topic: Will David Bain get Compensation??????  (Read 1057 times)
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donquixotenz
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« on: June 05, 2009, 05:09:28 pm »

I think not as changes made to legislation puts onus of proof of non involvement on the petitioner.
The burden of proof is on David regardless of the courts decision, qiuet the opposite now applies guilty unless proof of complete innocence can be proved.
As pointed out by judge when answering juries questions the jury must feel he was guilty on the evidence BEYOND ANy REASONABLE DOUBT but despite that to claim compensation he has to prove his innocence BEYOND DOUBT an impossible task this far down the track.
Reallity is if you want compensation the government has stacked the deck and made its own rules BEYOND the Courts.... sux eh?
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donquixotenz
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« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2009, 05:19:36 pm »

Despite that he will probably come out of this with enough with interview and book rights to dissappear into comfortable anonminity.
He has probably had a guts full of the courts and most certainly get on with getting his life into some stability after years of trauma
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Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body.

But rather, to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming...

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Newtown-Fella
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« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2009, 05:31:12 pm »

the $64 million dollar question...

under normal situation you get charged for a crime and if found not guilty its all over

guilty and off to jail...

this case im sure will have set a precedent as its not often that someone found guikty serves time in jail and then gets released as ay Privy Council oreders the convictions quashed after someone has spent 10 years "life" in jail

Labour refused to accept the Privy Council decision and ordered a re trial thereby releasing itself of any financial responsibility  

National now will have to decide if any compensation is warranted and im sure many NZer's will want to see some payment made and no matter what they decide they will be damned

Arthur Thomas got $1 million for 10 years in the days when incomes werent anywhere near what they would have been in 1994

anyone want to guess what should be paid today ?
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DazzaMc
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« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2009, 05:34:32 pm »

1 Million for every year.
That's what it should be anyway.
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Ferney
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« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2009, 05:39:55 pm »

I thought I read in the newspaper before this trial that he wouldn't get compensation if he was found 'not Guilty'.
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Lovelee
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« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2009, 05:57:26 pm »

Karam will make sure he gets shares from the next book .. sadly though we all know the outcome  Grin
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« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2009, 05:58:55 pm »

Yeh hey!  Hes had how many million to get him off this??

Nah hes used his get out of jail free card, I dont reckon he should get anything.
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« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2009, 06:10:36 pm »

David Bain has received more than $2.7 million in legal aid since his original trial.

He has received $2.06 million in legal aid to date for his pre-trial appeals and retrial on murder charges, the Legal Services Agency said today.

This was not a final figure - that would not be known until all invoices were received and assessed.

Previous legal aid of $706,127 has been paid for his original trial and appeal, and 2006 Privy Council appeal.

The Legal Services Agency, a crown agency, was responsible for helping people access justice, by granting legal aid.

Legal aid grants were to pay for legal services and might include aid for costs other than a lawyer's time, including expert witnesses, forensic tests, investigators and office costs. Legal services do not include personal expenses of the defendant such as travel and accommodation.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2477078/Bain-legal-aid-tops-2-7m
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donquixotenz
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« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2009, 06:17:11 pm »

It would have to get 5 mil just to repay the legal and associated costs of his appeals even before he got any compensation.
10 mil wouls not be enough for all the years of persecution for a crime he did not convict and was gained by highly questionable evidence presented by the prosecution.
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Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body.

But rather, to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming...

WOW, What a Ride!"

Please note: IMHO and e&oe apply to all my posts.
TokGal
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« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2009, 06:38:50 pm »


Labour refused to accept the Privy Council decision and ordered a re trial thereby releasing itself of any financial responsibility  


I was under the impression that the Privy Council quashed the convictions because of some serious questions about the first trial and how it was conducted, and it was THEY, not Labour who recommended a re-trial.
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DazzaMc
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« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2009, 06:57:10 pm »

But now that he's innocent why should he pay from his own pockets for the 'states' mistake?!

We empower these people who live a life higher than our own (PM's, QC's, Judges etc) and with that comes certain responsibilities and one of those responsibilities is fairly and evenly representing us, the people of New Zealand.

In my view those who we have empowered have stuffed up and as they represent us, then we the people have also stuffed up. Since we have empowered these people then it is also our responsibility to fix any wrong doings these nominated people do in representing us - that's just a simple fact of math and accountability.

From our collective incomes 1 million for every year of this mans life lost seems totally reasonable. And a written apology from the people of New Zealand to settle the personal side.


The system fucked up - this guy deserves something in return.
The same applies to Steven Wallace.

Our laws are supposedly founded of good strong moralistic values - if that's so then the same rules must apply both ways if the system wishes to remain truly moralistic balanced. If the system stuffs up then it is only moralistically fair that the system should compensate.

Cough up....

 Smiley
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Lovelee
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« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2009, 07:16:05 pm »

Rex Haig didnt get any money cos it wasnt absolutely clear that he didnt have anything to do with the murders.

I cant explain it now -- it sounded so easy on the t to understand it.

 Roll Eyes
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guest49
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« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2009, 07:16:42 pm »

Quote
But now that he's innocent why should he pay from his own pockets for the 'states' mistake?!

As has been pointed out on this board before, just beacause he has been found Not Guilty, doesnt mean that he is innocent.   All it means is that the jury had doubts, and as such couldnt convict.

Why should I pay someone who probably is guilty, a single cent?
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DazzaMc
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« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2009, 07:26:32 pm »

In a court of law and to the letter of the law you either did it or you didn't - the end result is that he didn't, there's no grey areas there. The man is innocent by definition of the laws which we the people have created. Pure and simple.



I'm not talking about just the Bain case here - it's time this whole compensation thing was thrown up for debate....

 Smiley
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Lovelee
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« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2009, 07:30:39 pm »

Quote
it's time this whole compensation thing was thrown up for debate....

Yep -- and wiped out.

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guest49
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« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2009, 07:41:31 pm »

Quote
In a court of law and to the letter of the law you either did it or you didn't - the end result is that he didn't, there's no grey areas there. The man is innocent by definition of the laws which we the people have created. Pure and simple.

Absolutely and totally incorrect.
He has not been found innocent, but not guilty - a totally different thing.
If he had been pardoned, then he would have been found innocent.
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Ferney
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« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2009, 07:41:33 pm »

Bain Compensation Claim to be Considered on Merits

Any application for compensation from David Bain would probably be referred to a senior lawyer to consider its merits, Justice Minister Simon Power said today.

Mr Power told Radio New Zealand that no compensation application had been received and he had received no briefing on the issue.

There was no legal right for compensation in such cases and the grounds for awarding it were very narrow, he said.

Bain's case would be considered on its merits if an application was made.

Michael Reed QC, who headed the Bain legal team, left no doubt that Bain was entitled to compensation for his many years of lost freedom.

Bain would have to apply to Cabinet for compensation, he said.

"Of course I believe that should happen after 13 years in prison. Think how long 13 years is in prison," he told reporters.

Asked to comment on the verdict, Mr Power said Bain would be very relieved at the decision.

In the past compensation has only been handed over if the person was believed to be innocent on the balance of probability, not simply found not guilty.

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/full-coverage/5631676/bain-compensation-claim-considered-merits



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DazzaMc
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« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2009, 07:57:05 pm »

Quote
In a court of law and to the letter of the law you either did it or you didn't - the end result is that he didn't, there's no grey areas there. The man is innocent by definition of the laws which we the people have created. Pure and simple.

Absolutely and totally incorrect.
He has not been found innocent, but not guilty - a totally different thing.
If he had been pardoned, then he would have been found innocent.


If that's the case then perhaps you could explain to me just how "innocent until proven guilty" works?
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DazzaMc
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« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2009, 08:07:51 pm »

A person cant be Guilty AND Innocent both at the same time can they?

Doesn't that seem a little dumb to anyone?


Sounds like a Govt scapegoat to me......
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DazzaMc
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« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2009, 08:25:09 pm »

And lovely - if the cops turned up at your front door and arrested you for some crime which you didn't do, and then you ended up locked up for a considerable length of time...

...are you sure you are being completely honest in your opinion expressed above?


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guest49
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« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2009, 08:56:37 pm »

Quote
Innocent until proven guilty

Can you show me where this is in NZ Legislation?

It is in America, and I think, in Britain - but I dont think it is in NZ law.
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« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2009, 09:28:21 pm »

This is where our laws must be looked at.

And Daz - good call - I actually feel strongly about this.  Like when I got caught - the cops were hardly out of their cars and I had admitted to the head dude that I had it - that it is mine.  Comes from the fact that I know whats right and wrong.  I am responsible for my actions.

No one paid any legal aid for my case - I could have applied and the lawyer said it wouldnt be an issue, however I didnt NEED the taxpayer to pay my costs.

There are many issues around the entire thing that I would love to do something about - but it will never happen.  Which reminds me MrL paid $60 for witness costs, the witness was for the prosecution, though he ended up being a defence witness (much to the cops chagrin).  That was 12 months ago today!!!!!  And the witness still hasnt got the $60 - Ive rung the cops involved - what a dreadful conversation.  How am I supposed to get it sorted out when the cop tells me (the detective sergeant) that he doesnt want to know anything about it and if I ring him again he will have me done for harrassment.  The witness is 84, couldnt walk into the courthouse - we had to arrange for him to be wheelchaired in by St Johns, who after the case drove him and his wife home.  He was/is still horrified at the laughter from the cops at his inability to get into the courthouse and their smirks as he was lifted into the ambo to go home.
My next visit to TA will be to see the court registrar and get her to sort it out.
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DazzaMc
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« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2009, 10:16:45 pm »

Will come back to this when I get my workstation back up and going.

 Smiley
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« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2009, 10:17:11 pm »

Not Guilty’ is so definitive when it was only ‘beyond reasonable doubt’
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« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2010, 04:59:45 pm »




David Bain files for compensation

David Bain files claim with Govt for compensation

David Bain must prove innocence to get payout

David Bain seeks cash for 13 years in jail

Should David Bain get compensation? — NZ Herald reader comments

Hurdle ‘too high’ for Bain to get payout
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