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Geographic Board - ask the people - Whanganui/Wanganui

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Author Topic: Geographic Board - ask the people - Whanganui/Wanganui  (Read 3781 times)
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Lovelee
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« on: May 14, 2009, 03:31:53 pm »


Status

    * Spelling alteration from Wanganui (recorded name)
    * This place name proposal was published in the New Zealand Gazette, newspapers and the 14 May 2009 NZGB public notice of decisions.


Description & location
City at the mouth of the Whanganui River, topographic map 260-R22-Wanganui, GR 833 394

Its important to read http://www.linz.govt.nz/placenames/consultation-decisions/a-to-z/whanganui/nzgb-final-summary-report-whanganui-20090327.pdf  it is the general background - also taken into consideration by the board.

City (spelling alteration)
Proposal

The submitter is Te Rūnanga o Tupoho (submitted on their behalf by lawyers McCaw Lewis Chapman), who are seeking to correct the spelling for the name of the city (not the district) of ‘Wanganui’ to ‘Whanganui’. The proposal covers the following points:

   1. that the logical next step after correcting the river name, is to correct the name for the city, which takes its name from the river;
   2. early evidence of the intended spelling as Whanganui;
   3. Waitangi Tribunal briefs of evidence by three separate claimant groups;
   4. evidence of local and growing usage of Whanganui as the spelling used by organisations and businesses in the city.

The submitter also provided:

   1. A written submission by Te Kenehi Mair on behalf of Te Rūnanga o Tupoho and Te Iwi o Whanganui;
   2. A consultation/communication report;
   3. A cultural report prepared by Che Wilson;
   4. An historical report prepared by Bruce Stirling;
   5. A Statement of Evidence by Rangi Wills (a current Wanganui Councillor) that was filed as part of the Wai 999/Te Poho o Matapihi hearings before the Waitangi Tribunal; and
   6. Two historical maps referring to the town as Whanganui.

History

During the planning of the city (c.1850), it was originally set to be named Petre (pronounced Peter), but Wanganui soon came to be documented as the city’s name.

Information about whether the area over which the city was formed has an original Māori name, may need to be investigated. If it does not, then there may be no case for selecting an original Māori place name, and the argument then rests on whether the current spelling is incorrect. The Mayor argues that the name, Wanganui, is not a Māori name, but that its selection was influenced by a Māori word.

The reference book, ‘Old Whanganui’ by T W Downes, provides an excellent pre-European account of the Māori discovery and occupation of the district and river. Te Rūnanga o Tupoho’s oral history provides that their ancestor, Haunui, named Whanganui 600 years ago, and that it means great harbour or expanse of water.
Previous consideration of the Board

The Board’s views of 1991 should be noted, in particular the minutes of 8 February 1991 and the report to the Minister of 12 March 1991. See attached copies. Wanganui is classified as a recorded name – it has not been gazetted.

Alternative name

The Board’s dual naming convention, which recognises equal and special significance of both the original Māori and non-Māori names, within the community, does not apply. Possibly the Board’s policy on alternative naming might be able to be used, perhaps with a condition that over a specified period of time Wanganui could be dropped in favour of Whanganui.

District Council name

It is probable that most people can separate the river name from the city name, even though the latter historically derived its name from the former. The Board made this distinction in 1991. While this situation creates something of an anomaly or inconsistency, it is one that can be, and has been, lived with. However, it may be more difficult, in practical terms, for the general public to distinguish the city from what many would still call the City Council. If the final outcome is that the name of the city is changed (which the Board/Minister have statutory power to do), consideration should be given to what, in practical terms, this means for the Wanganui District Council, noting that the Board is expressly prevented from proactively changing the district name, without the Council’s consent (i.e. the Wanganui District Council would have jurisdiction over Whanganui City). The constitution of the Wanganui District Council by NZ Gazette 1989 page 2368 refers, and provides for it to be constituted for the Wanganui District, which comprises 6 wards (Waitotara, Parapara-Fordell, Westmere, Castlecliff, Central, and Matarawa). In 2007, the Local Government Commission carried out a review, and determined that the Wanganui Rural Community be divided into three subdivisions for election purposes, rather than wards: Kai Iwi (SO 386526), Whanganui (SO 386525) and Kaitoke (SO 386524).


online submissions ...


http://www.linz.govt.nz/placenames/consultation-decisions/a-to-z/whanganui/name-change-submissions.aspx
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Charlie
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« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2009, 04:13:45 pm »

If the board disregard the wishes of the people and rename it Whanganui then all they will serve to do is create a situation where they will no longer be recognised.
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Newtown-Fella
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« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2009, 04:30:41 pm »



......seeking to correct the spelling for the name of the city (not the district) of ‘Wanganui’ to ‘Whanganui’.


so how come the District name will remain and be called Wanganui ?

i thought this whole debate was about the word being spelt wrong ?

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Lovelee
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« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2009, 04:33:41 pm »

Dont ask me bro, thats all c&p and fyi  Grin
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beaker
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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2009, 12:20:03 am »

Te Kenehi?Huh WTF!!!

Just to clarify - for as long as I've lived in Wanganui, the region has always been spelt with an "H" and we've always used "H" in the spelling of the river.  It's the city that is known as Wanganui.

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bump head benny
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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2009, 01:06:37 am »

Yep the place that sounds kind of Maorish yet means nothing much in Maori???..hmmmmm somethings wrong there.
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Nitpicker1
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« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2009, 06:39:41 am »

http://nz.messages.yahoo.com/nz-news/nz-top-stories/85169?p=2

A study recently completed by auckland university linguistics phd researcher katya haakenars has found that half of yahoo messageboard posters have a below-average language iq.

haakenars says key language indicators identified in the study were the use of the incorrect "to" or "too", and 'your' when meaning "you're". use of apostrophes was described as "primitive at best". allowing for a percentage of typographic errors, she also described posters' spelling a "sad indictment on our ability to communicate"

when asked whether she thought the literacy standards are stable or falling, haakenars replied "your just going to have too wait and see."
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DidiMau69
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« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2009, 08:11:05 am »

They've already asked the people. The answer was overwhelmingly for the status quo.

But I suppose they'll keep on asking until only the whuck witted can be bothered responding.

At fich stage te Geografic board will have got te response that they whant.
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Nitpicker1
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« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2009, 09:21:49 am »

They've already asked the people. The answer was overwhelmingly for the status quo.

But I suppose they'll keep on asking until only the whuck witted can be bothered responding.

At fich stage te Geografic board will have got te response that they whant.

So what have YOU done about it, eh?

http://www.linz.govt.nz/placenames/consultation-decisions/a-to-z/whanganui/name-change-submissions.aspx
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DidiMau69
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« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2009, 10:14:52 am »

Thank for that link. I have just forwarded a submission.

Not that I think the self serving clowns will take any notice, but it made me feel better.
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Lovelee
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« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2009, 11:26:25 am »

Wanganui voters out in force on 'h' issue
New 8:15AM Saturday May 16, 2009

A big response to Wanganui District Council's latest referendum is being attributed to the addition of a sixth question asking voters if they want an "h" added to Wanganui.

By midday yesterday 15,266 voting papers had been returned, representing more than 48.9 per cent of papers sent out to the district's 31,200 eligible voters - with a week still to go.

Noeline Moosman, the council's electoral officer, told the Wanganui Chronicle the returns showed the referendum was tracking well ahead of the previous three.

The accelerated response could be attributed to the inclusion of a sixth -- and contentious -- question asking voter if voters wanted an "h" added to the district's name of Wanganui.

Initially Referendum 09 included five questions on the council's 10-year draft plan.

But the sixth was added after the New Zealand Geographic Board decided to publicly consult on changing the name to Whanganui.

An extraordinary council meeting on April 6 saw the councillors vote 9-4 in favour of including a question in the referendum about whether residents prefer the city to be spelled Wanganui or Whanganui.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10572682&ref=rss
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Newtown-Fella
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« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2009, 11:32:59 am »

'H' myths to be exposed

A history of the naming of Wanganui, to be made public today, "exposes some of the myths" of putting an "h" in the city's name, Wanganui Mayor Michael Laws says.

The paper, by historian Diana Beaglehole, was commissioned by Wanganui District Council.

"The results will startle many and expose some of the myths around the creation of the alternative Whanganui spelling," Mr Laws said.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/central-north-island/2418728/H-myths-to-be-exposed
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Newtown-Fella
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« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2009, 11:40:36 am »

History not on the side of Wanganui's 'H'


A history of the naming of Wanganui has found that 'Wanganui', without the ''h'', was the original spelling, Mayor Michael Laws says.

A paper by historian Diana Beaglehole, commissioned by the Wanganui District Council, was released today by Mr Laws.

''This report clearly concludes that the early settlers and missionaries spelt Wanganui correctly,'' Mr Laws said.

It was clear that ''unique Maori phonetics of the local tribes intended the 'h' to be excluded'', he said.

The paper also found that early histories made mistakes by adding the ''h'' to the name Wanganui.

In the paper, Ms Beaglehole found that Wanganui first began appearing in written form in the late 1830s.

''The Wanganui spelling was a direct consequence of the way the initial sound in the name was pronounced by local iwi,'' Ms Beaglehole said.

No early diaries or journals had any references to the Whanganui version of the name, she said.

The council last month voted to hold a public referendum on the spelling of the city's name, after the New Zealand Geographic Board found the name should be spelt with an ''h''.

Local iwi committee Te Runanga O Tupoho petitioned the board to add the ''h''.

The referendum concluded on Thursday.

The report and full results of the public referendum would go to a full council meeting on Friday.

Ms Beaglehole has a MA in history from Victoria University in Wellington.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/central-north-island/2420898/History-not-on-the-side-of-Wanganuis-H
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Justic
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« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2009, 11:49:40 am »

History not on the side of Wanganui's 'H'


A history of the naming of Wanganui has found that 'Wanganui', without the ''h'', was the original spelling, Mayor Michael Laws says.

A paper by historian Diana Beaglehole, commissioned by the Wanganui District Council, was released today by Mr Laws.

''This report clearly concludes that the early settlers and missionaries spelt Wanganui correctly,'' Mr Laws said.

It was clear that ''unique Maori phonetics of the local tribes intended the 'h' to be excluded'', he said.

The paper also found that early histories made mistakes by adding the ''h'' to the name Wanganui.

In the paper, Ms Beaglehole found that Wanganui first began appearing in written form in the late 1830s.

''The Wanganui spelling was a direct consequence of the way the initial sound in the name was pronounced by local iwi,'' Ms Beaglehole said.

No early diaries or journals had any references to the Whanganui version of the name, she said.

The council last month voted to hold a public referendum on the spelling of the city's name, after the New Zealand Geographic Board found the name should be spelt with an ''h''.

Local iwi committee Te Runanga O Tupoho petitioned the board to add the ''h''.

The referendum concluded on Thursday.

The report and full results of the public referendum would go to a full council meeting on Friday.

Ms Beaglehole has a MA in history from Victoria University in Wellington.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/central-north-island/2420898/History-not-on-the-side-of-Wanganuis-H

That doesn't mean it's the right spelling.  Go to somewhere like the Auckland museum and look through the historical records held there and you will find some interesting attempts to covert Maori place names into English spelling around in that era.
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guest49
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« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2009, 12:08:05 pm »

Bogies, 12 o'clock high!
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Charlie
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« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2009, 07:56:34 pm »

I can't find the word right now but there is a Maori word something like tutu that sort of means to muck around with or tinker with. It seems to be the case with spelling and pronounciation.
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Lovelee
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« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2009, 11:45:37 am »

Results on W'h'anganui poll due today

The results from Wanganui District Council's latest referendum, which included a question regarding adding an "h" added to Wanganui, will be released later today.

About 19,000 voting papers have been returned, representing more 61 per cent of papers sent out to the district's 31,200 eligible voters, Wanganui Mayor Michael Laws said.

The response tracked well ahead of the last three referendums, electoral officer Noeline Moosman said.

Mr Laws said the voter turn-out was incredible and showed true democracy at work.

"There were complicated choices to be made: from the preferred spelling of Wanganui to the level of rates increase for 2009/10."

Results of the referendum would be released at the council's special meeting at 3pm.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10573887&ref=rss

I fully expect that Whanganui will be one of the few towns in the world whose people want the spelling of it to remain mis-spelt.
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Laughter is the best medicine, unless you've got a really nasty case of syphilis, in which case penicillin is your best bet.
Kiwithrottlejockey
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« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2009, 01:11:30 pm »


I totally and absolutely support putting the h into Whanganui.

But for one reason only....to piss off Michael Laws and cause him to go totally spastic, froth at the mouth, openly display his racist & redneck tendencies, and generally throw all of his toys out of the cot!

If it wasn't for Michael Laws, I wouldn't really care one way or the other.
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Nitpicker1
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« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2009, 01:46:20 pm »

Laws' referendum is really only a poll, not binding
Examples of other misspelt place names in New Zealand:
• Petone, should be Pito One
• Hataitai, should be Whataitai
• Otago, should be Otakau
• Wyndham, should be Windham
• Gowanbridge, should be
Gowenbridge
• Rewiti, changed to Reweti
• Epuni, should be Te Puni
• Carisbrook, should be Carisbrooke
• Kaiapoi, should be Kaiapohia
• Kaikorai, should be Kaikarae
• Lake Manapouri, should be Moturau

 Lake Matheson, should be Mathieson
• Mount Parahaki, changed to Mount
Parihaka
• Pupu Springs vs Waikoropupu Springs
• Tinakori vs Tinakore
• Waikanae, should be Waikana

source Geographic Board
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guest49
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« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2009, 02:15:19 pm »

Quote
source Geographic Board

Oh Gawd!

Couldnt we put these useless bastards somewhere where they could do something useful for the money they are overpaid?
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Newtown-Fella
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« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2009, 03:46:46 pm »

Results of Referendum 09

Held on Thursday 21 May 2009

Which spelling would you prefer for our city and district?

Wanganui 14410 77.32%

Whanganui 4153 22.28%

http://www.wanganuireferendum.govt.nz/Results.asp

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Nitpicker1
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« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2009, 01:14:26 pm »

UPDATE FOR

Laws' referendum is really only a poll, not binding
Examples of other misspelt place names in New Zealand:
• Petone, should be Pito One
• Hataitai, should be Whataitai
• Otago, should be Otakau
• Wyndham, should be Windham
• Gowanbridge, should be
Gowenbridge
• Rewiti, changed to Reweti
• Epuni, should be Te Puni
• Carisbrook, should be Carisbrooke
• Kaiapoi, should be Kaiapohia
• Kaikorai, should be Kaikarae
• Lake Manapouri, should be Moturau

 Lake Matheson, should be Mathieson
• Mount Parahaki, changed to Mount
Parihaka
• Pupu Springs vs Waikoropupu Springs
• Tinakori vs Tinakore
• Waikanae, should be Waikana

source Geographic Board


I think we should go petition the Geographic board to change the name of Auckland.... Seems that it means the land of the Pinguinus impennis 

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Magoo
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« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2009, 01:19:55 pm »

Quote
Wanganui 14410 77.32%

Whanganui 4153 22.28%

No real surprises there.
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DidiMau69
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« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2009, 07:59:11 am »

Quote
Wanganui 14410 77.32%

Whanganui 4153 22.28%

No real surprises there.

But will the Geographic Board take any notice?

I wouldn't be surprised if they steamrollered a decision that suited them.

They are, after all, a product of the last nine years of 'we know best' socialism.
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Magoo
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« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2009, 08:07:24 am »

Quote
But will the Geographic Board take any notice?
  Probably not Didi and we will no doubt very soon hear the " yes but...."
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