'I want them dead', NZ woman says of Cronulla players

[Newtown-Fella]

............. let it go Michael - that was 7 years ago  

that statement should read ....let it go "Clare" it was 7 years ago and the NZ Police obviously didnt believe you or else they would have laid charges

[Lovelee]

I dont think charges are the point - I think acknowledgement is whats needed.

[Magpie]

Laying charges in cases of this nature is extremely problematical. No doubt every male present at the time would claim the girl consented. Maybe they even believe she consented or have subsequently persuaded themselves that she did.

Police will lay charges only if they believe they can make the case stick.

If she was a willing partner then that doesn't explain why she would be experiencing trauma several years later.

I just hope NF never has a teenage daughter coming to him with a tale of being forced into group sex by a bunch of predatory males. His first response would be to demand she tell him what she did to deserve what happened to her.

Muslims have a similar point of view. To many of them the female is responsible for horny males being unable to control their urges. NF appears to agree.

[Lovelee]

experiencing trauma several years later.

This is a common ailment - experienced in times of war, after anything traumatic.  Often it lies underneath everything - just there - sometimes it jumps up and bites us in the bum, for some, there is no trauma felt afterwards - some can shrug trauma off, for others it may destroy all in range.

Its called post traumatic stress disorder and many many people experience it in some shape or form.

[Newtown-Fella]

...... coming to him with a tale of being forced into group sex by a bunch of predatory males.

Magpie where does it say she was FORCED into group sex ?

from what im reading SHE went to the hotel room on her own accord she could have said No to the invite but didnt ...

ask yourself why ...

im thinking the thought of crawling into bed with a couple of league players had a cool ring to it and gave her as i said earlier bgragging rights amongst her mates ....

now when things went from a 3 some situation to group of 6 in the bed and 6 watching from the sidelines she didnt complain in fact she even commented "There were always hands on me. If one person would stop, someone was touching me doing something else. There was never a point where I was not being handled,"

she lay back and took it all

if the whole matter has been so devastating on her life over the last 7 years and she has had counselling etc etc etc to get over the "trauma" and "move" on with her life what has she know done by going public ?

oh thats rght brought it back and undone all the work shes undertaken to get better ....

and yes i thought it had a Veitch ring to it lets just hope that what Matty Johns has done in coming forward and being the scape goat isnt the end of the matter ...

lets hope that the Police do decide to review the case and take it to court ...

get her in the witness box and extract the truth out of her ...

from where im sitting im reading ... SHE was a willing participant SHE went to their room She wasnt expecting tea and scones SHE wanted to have sex with a league player SHE got her wish SHE had sex with 6 of them

unfortunately SHE didnt do what many would do if it was all too much SHE didnt get up and leave SHE stayed ...

was HER staying and becoming involved in a 2 hour orgy the fault of a bunch of league players ?

NO !!

its called making choices ... and SHE made a choice ....

SHE needs to take responsibilty for her actions and her action alone

[Lovelee]

Its actually considered cleansing by stepping up and doing it this way - tough in the beginning but once everyone knows - she might feel she can begin to feel better about it.

The reality is this incident should never have happened - none of the <20 people should have been indulging in this act - every one of them should be feeling some responsibility and maybe some remorse - irrelevant if she encouraged it or not.

[Magpie]

NF, your capacity to blame females for males being unable to control their sexual urges doesn't need to be repeated, you've ranted often enough about it in the past.

I just hope for their sake you don't any daughters.

A girl is in the middle of group sex with a bunch of horny men and suddenly says" "Okay I've had enough now, I'm off". And the unsatisfied males say: "Oh, okay then, bye...."

Geez, what planet is this character from?

Its not often I feel ashamed of my gender. This is one time. NF belongs alongside Muslim extremists, I hope he feels comfortable there.

[Lovelee]

A girl is in the middle of group sex with a bunch of horny men and suddenly says" "Okay I've had enough now, I'm off". And the unsatisfied males say: "Oh, okay then, bye...."

 

[Newtown-Fella]

NF, your capacity to blame females for males being unable to control their sexual urges doesn't need to be repeated, you've ranted often enough about it in the past.

I just hope for their sake you don't any daughters.

A girl is in the middle of group sex with a bunch of horny men and suddenly says" "Okay I've had enough now, I'm off". And the unsatisfied males say: "Oh, okay then, bye...."

Geez, what planet is this character from?

Its not often I feel ashamed of my gender. This is one time. NF belongs alongside Muslim extremists, I hope he feels comfortable there.

actually for the record Magpie i dont have any daughters ....

this girl was in the middle of group sex with a bunch of horny men because SHE chose to be Magpie ...

no one dragged her to that hotel room she knew what was going to happen from the outset or else she wouldnt have gone there in the first place....

ok so the sex went from a 3 some to an orgy with up to 6 guys having their way with her ....

next we will hear that she had a child as a result of her night of willing sexual activity ...

and yes she could have said "Okay I've had enough now, I'm off" but she didnt perhaps the sight of all those horny well endowed aussie males was all too exciting

going to hotel rooms to visit [ have sex with ] sports players has been splashed across the media a lot in recent times and what is the outcome ?

most accusations are never taken to court ...

i wonder why ?

[Lovelee]

 .. probably cos unlike some men in this forum, there are some in authority positions who know that you cannot foxtrot alone.

That while some think women who have a lot of sex with different men, at the same itme or not, are hos, the men involved are also hos.

[Newtown-Fella]

its time to wake up ....

"Clare" started this whole saga so she needs to take responsibility for its outcome .....

recap :

1 She went to their room voluntarily .....

2 She went because she wanted to have sex with the player/s ....

3 She knew what the outcome of the visit would be ....

4 She got what she wanted ..... sex with a league player/s ...

[Lovelee]

.... and in your regard there is no responsibility required on the part of the men involved?

[Magoo]

and apparently no justification for reopening the investigation.


CRONULLA SHARKS INVESTIGATION
New Zealand Police National News Release
1:45pm 14 May 2009
http://www.police.govt.nz/news/release.html?id=5102
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Despite recent media and public interest into allegations surrounding members of the Cronulla Sharks team following their visit to New Zealand in 2002 Christchurch Police do not intend to reopen the investigation.  No new information has come to hand since the matter was investigated seven years ago.
 
Christchurch Police conducted an investigation in 2002 for which five officers were sent to Australia and spoke with all (40) players, support staff and management re allegations of sexual offending involving some of the Sharks.
 
"We were satisfied that full, frank and honest accounts were given to us by all persons spoken to," says acting Detective Inspector David LONG who worked on the investigation.  "All accounts obtained were analysed and cross referenced with all other persons spoken to in New Zealand as part of the investigation."
 
"Police are satisfied that no evidence was established that would support criminal charges being laid against any person.  The female complainant was fully advised at the time of the outcome of the inquiry and accepted this."
 
The NZ Police are not considering reopening the investigation as no new information has come to hand that was not known in 2002 he says.
 
"We are confident that we have stepped though all the issues relating to the allegations made.  A central issue of the investigation related to the issue of consent.  This related to consent on behalf of the female involved and the belief of others who may have had contact with her that she consented to the activity that took place."
 
As a result of media and public interest questions have been raised regarding morality issues surrounding the allegations.
 
While issues of morality are of interest to the public they are clearly not an issue of Police to address when looking at the criminality surrounding the actions of any person.  "Our role is to establish any criminality that warrants a matter being put before a Court of law," says acting Detective Inspector LONG
 
 

[Lovelee]

I dont think charges need be made, I think fronting up to the activities, with apologies all round for any trauma or discord would be sufficient.  No one acted responsibly.

[Magoo]

and as the sun sets in the west, so does the media career of yet another celeb.
You would think they would learn.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/2411814/Johns-sex-investigation-won-t-be-reopened

The investigation into the sex scandal that cost disgraced rugby league personality Matthew Johns his job will not be reopened, New Zealand police say.

Johns' media and coaching career is in tatters after the ABC's Four Corners program aired allegations about his involvement in a 2002 group sex incident in Christchurch while he was playing for Cronulla.

(more on link)

[Magpie]

Newton Fella is extremely prejudiced in these matters as he has shown in the past. He makes huge assumptions simply to suit his prejudices.

1) "She went to their room voluntarily" - yes, she did, so what? Is NF's view such that he believes any woman who goes to a hotel room with a man, or two men, is automatically agreeing to have sex with them? I've attended dozens of conferences down the years, gone to many hotel rooms with female colleagues for discussions, a cup of coffee, just to relax and watch TV.....did that give me the right to jump them and invite all my mates to join in and watch?

2 "She went because she wanted to have sex with the player/s" - This is NF's overheated male ego and imagination getting away with him. Maybe she just went intending to have a cup of coffee....

3. "She knew what the outcome of the visit would be".....that's nonsense, of course, we don't know what she knew or didn't know.

4."She got what she wanted - sex with a league player/s" - equally rubbish. We don't know what she wanted, or is NF of the view that all women ever want is sex it's just some don't know it and have to be reminded?

Lovelee, the answer to your question appears to be "yes". Rather than asking NF was planet he is on, I should ask what century he thinks he is in.....

[Newtown-Fella]

well finally the Police have spoken ....... now " Clare " take a deep breath get over yourself you have stuffed up 1 mans career and probably his marriage are over because of your allegations which teh NZ Police investigated fully .....

so i hope your one happy smiling little ray of sunshine now ...

CRONULLA SHARKS INVESTIGATION
New Zealand Police National News Release
1:45pm 14 May 2009
http://www.police.govt.nz/news/release.html?id=5102
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Despite recent media and public interest into allegations surrounding members of the Cronulla Sharks team following their visit to New Zealand in 2002 Christchurch Police do not intend to reopen the investigation.  No new information has come to hand since the matter was investigated seven years ago.

Christchurch Police conducted an investigation in 2002 for which five officers were sent to Australia and spoke with all (40) players, support staff and management re allegations of sexual offending involving some of the Sharks.

"We were satisfied that full, frank and honest accounts were given to us by all persons spoken to," says acting Detective Inspector David LONG who worked on the investigation.  "All accounts obtained were analysed and cross referenced with all other persons spoken to in New Zealand as part of the investigation."

"Police are satisfied that no evidence was established that would support criminal charges being laid against any person.  The female complainant was fully advised at the time of the outcome of the inquiry and accepted this."

The NZ Police are not considering reopening the investigation as no new information has come to hand that was not known in 2002 he says.

"We are confident that we have stepped though all the issues relating to the allegations made.  A central issue of the investigation related to the issue of consent.  This related to consent on behalf of the female involved and the belief of others who may have had contact with her that she consented to the activity that took place."

As a result of media and public interest questions have been raised regarding morality issues surrounding the allegations.

While issues of morality are of interest to the public they are clearly not an issue of Police to address when looking at the criminality surrounding the actions of any person.  "Our role is to establish any criminality that warrants a matter being put before a Court of law," says acting Detective Inspector LONG

[Lovelee]

Newt .... in response to your #35

.... and in your regard there is no responsibility required on the part of the men involved?

?

[Newtown-Fella]

Newton Fella is extremely prejudiced in these matters as he has shown in the past. He makes huge assumptions simply to suit his prejudices.

1) "She went to their room voluntarily" - yes, she did, so what? Is NF's view such that he believes any woman who goes to a hotel room with a man, or two men, is automatically agreeing to have sex with them? I've attended dozens of conferences down the years, gone to many hotel rooms with female colleagues for discussions, a cup of coffee, just to relax and watch TV.....did that give me the right to jump them and invite all my mates to join in and watch?

2 "She went because she wanted to have sex with the player/s" - This is NF's overheated male ego and imagination getting away with him. Maybe she just went intending to have a cup of coffee....

3. "She knew what the outcome of the visit would be".....that's nonsense, of course, we don't know what she knew or didn't know.

4."She got what she wanted - sex with a league player/s" - equally rubbish. We don't know what she wanted, or is NF of the view that all women ever want is sex it's just some don't know it and have to be reminded?

Lovelee, the answer to your question appears to be "yes". Rather than asking NF was planet he is on, I should ask what century he thinks he is in.....

1) "She went to their room voluntarily" - yes, she did ... wow you agree with me for once

2 "She went because she wanted to have sex with the player/s" - This is NF's overheated male ego and imagination getting away with him. Maybe she just went intending to have a cup of coffee.... oh sorry Magpie how stupid of me of course she went to have a cup of coffee... sorry my mistake NOT !!

3. "She knew what the outcome of the visit would be"..... oops she didnt get that cup of coffee she went for how sad

4."She got what she wanted - sex with a league player/s" - equally rubbish oh sorry again you are right Magpie she didnt want sex she wanted a cup of coffee !! those naughty league boys sure are rude not giving "Claire" a cup of coffee

if you think she didnt have an ulterior motive Magpie it shows up how gullible you really are ...

if it had been a bunch of guys in Chch for a work conference would she have taken up an offer from them to go to their room  " for a cup of coffee " ?


tell me when you go to the supermarket what do you go for food or a new outfit to wear to the next Labour Party shindig ?

[Lovelee]

Newt .... in response to your #35

.... and in your regard there is no responsibility required on the part of the men involved?

?

[Newtown-Fella]

Newt .... in response to your #35

.... and in your regard there is no responsibility required on the part of the men involved?

?

did they act irresponsibly ?

im not sure the bottom line is they joined in an orgy that obviously at the time was consensual by all parties

there are as the police point out issues around morality ...

is it immoral to have sex with more than one person at a time ?

is it irresponsible to have sex with more than one person at the same time ... ?

[Lovelee]

I didnt think you could man up!

[Newtown-Fella]

I didnt think you could man up!

what do you mean " man up ?

[k1w14ever]

He has lost his jobs and all hope of ever going back to any of them.  No one will ever look at him the same.

Neither should they.  I have no time or respect for anyone who screws around on there parnter.  It is WRONG.

This girl also has something to answer too.  Why bring it up now.  The police said she agreed to there findings.  Is she after money,  makes you wonder.

[k1w14ever]

will you two stop fighting,