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Article II, section 2 of the Constitution of the USA…


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Kiwithrottlejockey
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« on: December 19, 2019, 04:14:27 pm »


…gives a president the power to pardon anyone who has been convicted of offenses against the United States, with one exception: “In Cases of Impeachment”.

So as Donald J. Trump has now impeached by the House, he can never be pardoned for his crimes. He cannot pardon himself (it's dubious that a president has this self-pardoning power in any event), and he cannot be pardoned by a future president.

Even if a subsequent president wanted to pardon Trump in the interest of, say, domestic tranquility, he/she could not.

Gerald Ford wrote in his pardon of Nixon that if Nixon were indicted and subject to a criminal trial, “the tranquility to which this nation has been restored by the events of recent weeks could be irreparably lost”.

Had the House impeached Nixon, Ford's hands would have been tied.

Trump now isn't going to be as lucky. The House has just impeached him.

So now, he will be quite literally legally unpardonable, no matter what the decision of the upcoming trial in the Senate is.

When the 46th President of the USA is sworn into office, Trump will be going to jail not long after and even a future Republican president doesn't have the legal power to pardon him any more after today.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha … “Shove that right up your clacker, Cadet Bone Spurs!!” … You're going to jail, motherfucker, once your term is up.








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« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2019, 04:36:52 am »

they have no case all they are doing is making sure he wins the election
can they lose the house?
I think so

then he can come after the demon rats with a big bat

Trump wins they lose

then you lose

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« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2019, 10:50:32 am »


Dream on.

The damage has already be done to Trump.

Under the constitution, he can no longer be pardoned for any offence by any future president.

And if Nancy Pelosi has any sense, she'll withhold the articles of impeachment from the Senate indefinitely and instead weaponize them in next year's elections, turning the American people into a trial jury into Trump's corruption and crimes. And at the rate Trump is alienating women and ethnic minorities, there will be a shitload of people voting against the Republicans. Whether Trump then wins the presidential election or not is a moot point, because if he has both Congress and the Senate against him, he will become a nobody, tweeting, powerless clown in the White House prison. Especially if they then vote to take Air Force One away from him and as a result of that the Secret Service restricts his travel as a security measure. That would be even more entertaining & amusing than having a Democrat candidate elected as president. Imagine a powerless Trump seething with rage for four years? Wouldn't that be extremely funny?
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« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2019, 04:07:39 pm »


trump gets a trial found not guilty then what
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« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2019, 04:57:50 pm »


The Republicans have already said they won't allow any witnesses to be called and crossexamined; and they they are going to find Trump not-guilty no matter what the evidence (imagine a jury declaring that before a jury trial?), so why go through with a stupid charade? Nancy is better to hold on to the impeachment articles and present them to the American people before next year's election instead. The Republicans have brought this on themselves, so if it gets weaponized in attack ads next year, then they only have themselves to blame. They've done it to themselves.

And by next year's election, John Bolton's book will be published. I imagine there will be plenty of insider dirt in that after Trump shit on him big-time. He knows where the bodies are buried.

All the more reason to refuse to allow Republicans to hold a sham trial and put the evidence before the American people instead.
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« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2019, 12:07:01 pm »

where the bodies are buried? ask the Clintons

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« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2019, 01:13:35 pm »


from The Washington Post…

Trump is impeached and joins the ‘losers’ of presidential history

Congress deals a blow to his delusions of greatness.

By JENNIFER RUBIN | 8:43PM EST — Wednesday, December 18, 2019

President Donald J. Trump walks across the South Lawn to board Marine One and depart the White House on Wednesday. — Photograph: Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post.
President Donald J. Trump walks across the South Lawn to board Marine One and depart the White House on Wednesday.
 — Photograph: Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post.


ON AN almost entirely party-line vote, the House of Representatives voted to impeach President Trump on two articles of impeachment. He is only the third president to receive that black mark on his record. Understandably, he hates it. His fury is uncontrolled. He coughed up a warped, incoherent letter to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (Democrat-California) that all but the most deluded Trump sycophants view as disturbing.

Even Trump knows he will be lumped in with the “losers” in the presidential history rankings such as Richard Nixon and Andrew Johnson. Impeachment will define his presidency, dwarfing any other foreign or domestic action. No wonder he rages against a speaker he is powerless to stop. His worst nightmare is to be humiliated, and if not now, history certainly will regard him as a pitiful, damaged man utterly unfit for the role he won through a series of improbable events (thanks to a hostile foreign power and an undisciplined FBI director).

The facts Trump now dismisses and contorts (in contrast to the propaganda delivered to him by the Kremlin via right-wing media and useful idiots on the right), are as easily verified and as unassailable as the details of Watergate. In comparison to Nixon's impeachable acts, Trump's are likely to be viewed more harshly. Trump betrayed the country's national security and continued his affront to the Constitution by authorizing Rudolph W. Giuliani's ongoing effort to scrounge up “evidence” from Russian-backed operatives to use against a political rival.

The transcript of Trump's July 25 call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky preserves Trump's multiple references to “Biden” in black and white. (“There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it…”) It has become and will be seen historically as Trump's smoking gun.

Also preserved in the transcript is Trump's demand to a foreign leader to assist his political interests — “I would like you do us a favor though” — which will be reproduced in history books along with the testimony of witnesses such as former White House expert on Russia Fiona Hill, who called out Republicans' parroting of Russian propaganda. Trivia contests will feature such memorable phrases as former national security adviser John Bolton's remark: “I am not part of whatever drug deal [U.S. ambassador to the European Union Gordon] Sondland and [acting White House chief of staff Mick] Mulvaney are cooking up.” (History may come faster than you think, as Bolton cashes in on his book advance in what is sure to be a self-righteous recounting of the scandal and, ironically, a reminder of Bolton's cowering behavior, emblematic of those unwilling to tell the truth in service of the Constitution.)

Just as Watergate figures then-Senator Sam Ervin (Democrat-North Carolina) and then-Representatives Barbara Jordan (Democrat-Texas) and Peter Rodino (Democrat-New Jersey) were lionized as defenders of the Constitution, so too will Pelosi and House Democrats Adam B. Schiff (California), Eric Swalwell (California) and Jamie B. Raskin (Maryland) be among those admired for their lucidity, intellect and character. There is no shortage of patriots, if you know where to look. If ever you needed an illustration for your children, here is an episode vividly demonstrating that doing the right and difficult thing, sacrificing for a cause greater than oneself, has its own rewards. (We have no doubt which side the late senator John McCain would venerate and which he would disdain.) For every clownish, contemptible, screeching and dishonest House Republican, there is a sober, admirable, restrained and honest Democrat.


Protesters in support of Donald J. Trump's impeachment gather outside the Capitol on Wednesday, December 18. — Photograph: Sarah Voisin/The Washington Post.
Protesters in support of Donald J. Trump's impeachment gather outside the Capitol on Wednesday, December 18.
 — Photograph: Sarah Voisin/The Washington Post.


Meanwhile, in hundreds of gatherings around the country on Tuesday night, American citizens turned out to defend the Constitution and support impeachment. The same day, a band of Republicans unveiled the Lincoln Project to work on dislodging Trump and his accomplices from office in 2020. One after another, brave freshmen Democrats decided duty to the Constitution was far more important than political calculation and announced their support for impeachment. They put to shame Republicans such as Representatives Elise Stefanik (Republican-New York), Mike Gallagher (Republican-Wisconsin), Mac Thornberry (Republican-Texas) and Adam Kinzinger (Republican-Illinois) who know all too well the danger Trump poses yet cannot muster the courage to put country above party.

Unlike Republicans of the past who are credited with getting Nixon to resign — including Barry Goldwater, House Minority Leader John Rhodes and Senate Minority Leader Hugh Scott — no Republican save for ex-Republican Representative Justin Amash (Independent-Michigan) and the Never Trumpers outside of Congress has secured a place in history. So far, out of political cowardice or calculation or both, we lack even one Republican willing to denounce Trump's actions let alone support impeachment or a lesser penalty. (No matter how badly House members conduct themselves in the future, at least we will be able to say, “Hey, he's no Jim Jordan — or Devin Nunes — or Doug Collins.”)

No letter, no tweet, no Fox News spin can repair the reputations of Trump enablers. The right-wing media that cheered them on will, like outlets that rooted for Jim Crow and demonized Freedom Riders, be shunned by decent, freedom-loving people who reaffirm objective reality. The Republican Party will be known not as the Party of Lincoln but the Party of Trump, a quisling party that lost its bearings and its soul to defend an unhinged narcissist. Psychologists and sociologists will study a mass cult phenomenon, seeking to explain how a con man and his greedy media accomplices duped millions of Americans.

Perhaps some small number of Senate Republicans will decide to separate themselves from the pack of Trump worshipers. Some might demand a real trial with witnesses or even vote for impeachment. And if not, they, too, will join the other moral weaklings who failed their country when it needed them to do their jobs.

I do not mean to make light of the real and lasting damage Trump and his henchmen have inflicted on our institutions and national psyche, but we survived a Civil War, economic calamities and eras dominated by corrupt and disloyal politicians. As scarred as our democracy is, we now have a new pantheon of patriots to inspire and teach Americans about honor, courage and intellectual rigor. When your children or grandchildren attend Nancy Pelosi Elementary School or win a Jamie Raskin scholarship, they will remember who distinguished themselves. When they see Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, Hill and Marie Yovanovitch receive accolades and honors, they will know what gallant public service looks like.

As demoralizing and infuriating as this presidency has been, it is now within our power to wipe it all away and to vindicate the heroes, punish the villains and reset our democracy. We have 321 days until Election Day.


__________________________________________________________________________

Jennifer Rubin writes reported opinion from a center-right perspective for The Washington Post. She covers a range of domestic and foreign policy issues and provides insight into the conservative movement, the Republican Party and threats to Western democracies. Rubin, who is also an MSNBC contributor, came to The Post after three years with Commentary magazine. Prior to her career in journalism, Rubin practiced labor law for two decades, an experience that informs and enriches her work. She is a mother of two sons and lives in Northern Virginia.

__________________________________________________________________________

Related to this topic:

 • E.J. Dionne: Impeaching Trump is just the end of the beginning

 • Karen Tumulty: Impeachment is different this time. The script is already written.

 • Max Boot: Impeachment isn't Democrats versus Republicans. It's right versus wrong.

 • Ann Telnaes: The little, little president is impeached

 • Jennifer Rubin: Republicans' fraudulent defenses show how dishonest they are

 • Donna Edwards: Democrats, don't move on from impeachment after the vote. Double down on it.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/12/18/trump-makes-history
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« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2019, 02:20:57 pm »


from The Washington Post…

Trump is impeached by the House, creating
an indelible mark on his presidency


President Donald J. Trump becomes the third president in history
to be impeached by the House, facing charges he pressured
Ukraine to help his re-election. He faces likely Senate trial
in January, where he is expected to be acquitted.


By PHILIP RUCKER, FELICIA SONMEZ and COLBY ITKOWITZ | 9:59PM EST — Wednesday, December 18, 2019

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi oversees a vote on the second articles of impeachment against President Donald J. Trump in the House of Representatives at the U.S. Capitol on December 18. — Photograph: Matt McClain/The Washington Post.
Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi oversees a vote on the second articles of impeachment against President Donald J. Trump
in the House of Representatives at the U.S. Capitol on December 18. — Photograph: Matt McClain/The Washington Post.


THE House of Representatives voted late on Wednesday to impeach President Trump on charges that he abused his office and obstructed Congress, with Democrats declaring him a threat to the nation and branding an indelible mark on the most turbulent presidency of modern times.

After 11 hours of fierce argument on the House floor between Democrats and Republicans over Trump's conduct with Ukraine, lawmakers voted almost entirely along party lines to impeach him. Trump becomes the third president in U.S. history to face trial in the Senate — a proceeding that will determine whether he is removed from office less than one year before he stands for re-election.

On Trump's 1,062nd day in office, Congress brought a momentous reckoning to an unorthodox president who has tested America's institutions with an array of unrestrained actions, including some that a collection of his own appointees and other government witnesses testified were reckless and endangered national security.

The Democratic-controlled House passed two articles of impeachment against Trump — abuse of power and obstruction of Congress — related to the president's attempts to withhold military aid to Ukraine and pressure its government to investigate former vice president Joe Biden, a potential 2020 Democratic opponent.

The House voted 230 to 197 to approve the article charging abuse of power, with the gavel falling about 8:30 p.m. On the obstruction of Congress vote, which followed soon after, the tally was 229 to 198.

All Republicans voted against both articles. Among Democrats, two voted no on the first article and three on the second, with one — Representative Tulsi Gabbard (Democrat-Hawaii) — voting “present” both times.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (Democrat-California) framed the day's proceedings through the long lens of history, reciting the Pledge of Allegiance and singling out the line “the republic for which it stands.”

“Very sadly, now our founders' vision of a republic is under threat from actions from the White House,” Pelosi said. She added, “If we do not act now, we would be derelict in our duty.”

The Senate is widely expected to acquit Trump, since conviction and removal would require 67 votes in a chamber where Democrats and their allies hold 47 seats. If Trump is acquitted, it would launch an unpredictable stretch of his presidency; his reaction would be uncertain after opponents had taken a powerful but ultimately unsuccessful shot at removing him.


People walk through the hallways of the U.S. Capitol as the House prepares to vote on two Articles of Impeachment against President Donald J. Trump on Capitol Hill on December 18. — Photograph: Matt McClain/The Washington Post.
People walk through the hallways of the U.S. Capitol as the House prepares to vote on two Articles of Impeachment against
President Donald J. Trump on Capitol Hill on December 18. — Photograph: Matt McClain/The Washington Post.


After Wednesday's votes, Pelosi left open the possibility of delaying a procedural step that triggers a Senate trial, saying she might not name House impeachment managers and deliver the articles to the Senate unless Republicans there establish a “fair” process. In doing so, Pelosi was effectively attempting to gain leverage over the Senate's process for weighing the charges against Trump.

“So far we have not seen anything that looks fair to us,” Pelosi said.

Wednesday's action punctuated a quarter-century of increasingly poisonous partisanship in Washington, one that arguably began during Bill Clinton's presidency, was extended with rebellions against presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama, and is culminating in the Trump era.

The intensity and polarization of the debate on the House floor vividly illustrated the extent to which leaders of the two parties now believe entirely different accounts of what occurred and are motivated by different concerns. At times they sounded almost as if they were representing different countries.

Democrats characterized Trump as an immediate threat to the nation he was elected to lead, casting his actions as an unprecedented affront to American values. Republicans denounced those charges as unsubstantiated and the process as illegitimate, repeatedly accusing the Democrats of seeking to illegally overturn the results of the last election.

Trump, who has nursed deep feelings of persecution as his impeachment has grown more likely, watched the debate unfold from the White House. Ten minutes after press secretary Stephanie Grisham issued a statement saying the president was “working all day,” Trump vented his fury on Twitter: “SUCH ATROCIOUS LIES BY THE RADICAL LEFT, DO NOTHING DEMOCRATS. THIS IS AN ASSAULT ON AMERICA, AND AN ASSAULT ON THE REPUBLICAN PARTY!!!!”

Just before the House voted, Trump took the stage in Michigan, where he rallied an estimated 10,000 supporters at a sports arena in Battle Creek — a muscular display of political potency even at the historic low point of his presidency.

“This lawless partisan impeachment is a suicide march for the Democratic Party,” Trump told the crowd. He added, “After three years of sinister witch hunts, hoaxes, scams, tonight House Democrats are trying to nullify the ballots of tens of millions of patriotic Americans.”

Back in Washington, Pelosi sought to rebut allegations from Republicans that her party has cast about since Trump took office for a reason to impeach him, saying no lawmaker of either party came to the Capitol to remove a president. She said Trump had forced Congress's hand because he had “violated the Constitution.”

“He gave us no choice,” Pelosi said, drawing applause from Democrats by declaring that “we are here to defend democracy for the people.”


House Speaker Nancy Pelosi oversees a vote on the second of two articles of impeachment against President Donald J. Trump in the House on Wednesday. — Photograph: Matt McClain/The Washington Post.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi oversees a vote on the second of two articles of impeachment against President Donald J. Trump
in the House on Wednesday. — Photograph: Matt McClain/The Washington Post.


Barring a drastic shift in momentum, Trump is expected to be acquitted in the Senate, where a two-thirds supermajority is required to remove a president who has been impeached. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (Republican-Kentucky) has said he is planning a short trial and declared himself partial to protecting Trump.

Nevertheless, Trump's impeachment by the House will be a defining mark on his legacy. Wednesday's action cemented on a constitutional level the opposition party's view that Trump is unfit to serve, elevating the informal resistance to his presidency, which has raged from coast to coast, into the permanent historical record.

After Democrats surfed an anti-Trump wave in the 2018 mid-term elections to seize the House majority, Pelosi reclaimed the speaker's gavel she had lost eight years before with a clear mandate from her party's base to serve as a check on the president's power and investigate his conduct.

Pelosi at first resisted pressure from the left to impeach Trump, however, arguing that such a move would be unnecessarily divisive. But she formally opened an inquiry in September after a whistleblower reported concerns about Trump's conduct on a July 25 phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, in which Trump explicitly asked Zelensky to investigate Biden.

Marathon hearings last month before the House Intelligence Committee produced damaging testimony detailing Trump's actions and those of his personal attorney Rudolph W. Giuliani, among others. That helped solidify the support of even centrist Democrats for moving against the president, and the House Judiciary Committee then drafted the two articles of impeachment.

Democrats said on Wednesday that declining to punish a presidential demand that a foreign government influence an American election would be an unacceptable abdication of constitutional responsibility. Such an action clearly meets the standard of “high crimes and misdemeanors” that the Constitution lays out for impeachment, they said.

“The evidence is clear that President Trump took advantage of Ukraine's vulnerability and abused the powers of his office to pressure Ukraine to help his re-election campaign,” said Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerrold Nadler (Democrat-New York). “This is the highest of high crimes, and President Trump must be held to account.”

Democrats and Republicans took turns at the rostrum delivering short, impassioned speeches — a furious debate that in many ways showcased how much Trump has remade the two parties.


Republican lawmakers participate in a vote on the second articles of impeachment against President Donald J. Trump in the House of Representatives at the U.S. Capitol on December 18. — Photograph: Matt McClain/The Washington Post.
Republican lawmakers participate in a vote on the second articles of impeachment against President Donald J. Trump in
the House of Representatives at the U.S. Capitol on December 18. — Photograph: Matt McClain/The Washington Post.


The Republicans, mostly white men, stood staunchly behind the president and repeated many of his statements vilifying the opposition. The Democrats, notably more diverse in race and gender, uniformly attacked the president's conduct as an affront to American values.

“When we say we uphold the Constitution, we are not talking about a piece of parchment,” said Representative Adam B. Schiff (Democrat-California), chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. “We're talking about a beautiful architecture in which ambition is set against ambition, in which no branch of government can dominate another.”

He added, “That is what it means to uphold the Constitution. If you ignore it, if you say the president may refuse to comply, may refuse lawful process, may coerce an ally, may cheat in an election because he's the president of our party, you do not uphold our Constitution.”

Republicans responded that Democratic leaders had concocted a scheme to oust the president because they were afraid they could not beat him in next November's election.

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (Republican-California) said, “Democrats have wanted to impeach President Trump since the day he was elected — and nothing was going to get in their way, certainly not the truth.”

Though some Republican lawmakers defended Trump on the substance of the allegations, many spent most of their time airing grievances about the process. They often echoed the rambling, six-page letter Trump issued to Pelosi on Tuesday, and they repeated the president's claims of personal persecution in sometimes overheated terms.

“When Jesus was falsely accused of treason, Pontius Pilate gave Jesus the opportunity to face his accusers,” said Representative Barry Loudermilk (Republican-Georgia). “During that sham trial, Pontius Pilate afforded more rights to Jesus than the Democrats have afforded this president in this process.”

Other GOP House members described impeachment as the outgrowth of insidious forces.

“I have descended into the belly of the beast. I have witnessed a terror within,” said Representative Clay Higgins (Republican-Louisiana).


House Speaker Nancy Pelosi holds a news conference Wednesday at the Capitol after the vote approving two articles of impeachment against President Donald J. Trump. — Photograph: Salwan Georges/The Washington Post.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi holds a news conference Wednesday at the Capitol after the vote approving two articles
of impeachment against President Donald J. Trump. — Photograph: Salwan Georges/The Washington Post.


Representative Mike Kelly (Republican-Pennsylvania), meanwhile, drew a parallel to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941. After quoting President Franklin D. Roosevelt calling December 7 “a date that will live in infamy,” Kelly said, “Today, December the 18th, 2019, is another date that will live in infamy.”

Democrats captured the House majority last year in part by winning in suburban areas where Trump had prevailed two years earlier. Virtually all the Democrats from such Republican-leaning districts announced they would vote to impeach Trump, risking their seats in the face of aggressive campaigns in their home districts pressuring them to break ranks.

The Democrats' defectors were Representatives Collin C. Peterson of Minnesota and Jeff Van Drew of New Jersey. Representative Jared Golden (Democrat-Maine) voted in favor of the abuse of power article but switched to no for obstruction of Congress.

While no Republicans supported impeachment, Representative Justin Amash of Michigan, who left the party earlier this year to become an independent over frustration with the GOP's fealty to Trump, did so.

Republicans vowed to use the impeachment vote as a political cudgel against Democrats in next year's elections.

“Those who vote yes on today's articles of impeachment must carry the heavy burden of shame and guilt for as long as they serve in Congress — which won't be long, because the American people will remember in November,” said Representative Matt Gaetz (Republican-Florida).

Democrats, meanwhile, seemed eager to turn the page and refocus on health care and other issues that propelled them to victory in 2018.

“No one came to Congress to impeach a president,” said Representative Ben Ray Luján (Democrat-New Mexico), who ran House Democrats' campaign organization last year. “We came here to solve the mighty issues that impact the lives of the constituents we pledge to serve.”

But, he added, “this moment has found us.”


__________________________________________________________________________

Rachael Bade, Aaron Blake, Mike DeBonis and John Wagner contributed to this report.

Philip Rucker is the White House Bureau Chief for The Washington Post. He previously has covered Congress, the Obama White House, and the 2012 and 2016 presidential campaigns. Rucker also is a Political Analyst for NBC News and MSNBC. He joined The Post in 2005 as a local news reporter.

Felicia Sonmez is a national political reporter at The Washington Post covering breaking news from the White House, Congress and the campaign trail. Previously, she spent more than four years in Beijing, where she worked first as a correspondent for Agence France Presse and later as the editor of The Wall Street Journal's China Real Time Report. She also spent a year in advanced Chinese language study as a Blakemore Freeman Fellow at Tsinghua University. From 2010 to 2013, she reported on national politics for TheWashington Post, starting as a writer for The Fix and going on to cover Congress, the 2012 presidential campaign and the early days of President Barack Obama's second term. She began her career teaching English in Beijing and has also covered U.S. politics for the Asahi Shimbun and National Journal's The Hotline. She speaks fluent Chinese, Japanese and Spanish.

Colby Itkowitz has covered Washington D.C. policy and politics for more than a decade. Since coming to The Post in March 2014, she's covered health policy, anchored the ‘Inspired Life’ blog, and written about the quirks of the federal government and national politics for the famed ‘In the Loop’ column. She was previously The Morning Call's D.C. correspondent. Prior to that, she covered Capitol Hill, specifically transportation policy, for Congressional Quarterly.

Related to this topic:

 • VIDEO: House passes two articles of impeachment against President Trump


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-is-impeached-by-the-house-creating-an-indelible-mark-on-his-presidency/2019/12/18/501bcab2-2105-11ea-a153-dce4b94e4249_story.html
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« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2019, 02:37:25 pm »


from The Washington Post…

Here's how long Pelosi should hold onto the articles of impeachment

Republicans have complained the impeachment process has been rushed.
They might be pleased to learn Pelosi can slow things down a lot.


By JENNIFER RUBIN | 1:45PM EST — Thursday, December 19, 2019

House speaker Nancy Pelosi holds a press conference at the U.S. Capitol on December 19. — Photograph: Astrid Riecken/for The Washington Post.
House speaker Nancy Pelosi holds a press conference at the U.S. Capitol on December 19. — Photograph: Astrid Riecken/for The Washington Post.

THE WASHINGTON POST reported “[House Speaker Nancy] Pelosi discussed the idea of holding the articles in the House during a private caucus meeting on Thursday morning. Multiple lawmakers and aides present said she framed it as a strategic move, with one lawmaker summarizing it as a way to ensure Democrats are ‘picking the right players to put on the field’.” At her weekly news conference, she reiterated that the articles would be sent and the impeachment managers named once it's clear what sort of process the Senate would take up. She said she certainly hoped the process would be fair, making the point that the Founders envisioned a “rogue president” but perhaps not a “rogue president and a rogue leader in the Senate” at the same time.

All of this followed her declaration Wednesday night, reportedly backed by dozens of House members, to hold back the articles from the Senate, refusing to guarantee the articles would not be delayed indefinitely. Republicans, including Representative Douglas A. Collins (Republican-Georgia), Senator Lindsey O. Graham (Republican-South Carolina) and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (Republican-Kentucky), are already squawking about the delay.

As an early proponent of the strategy of holding back the articles, I certainly applaud her decision. It frankly is about time Democrats learned to exercise power in the gray areas where no clear precedent exists, a place where Republicans have operated with impunity. At the very least, Pelosi buys time to consider her options and ratchet up pressure on a president frantic to be acquitted.

It has not yet been 24 hours, and Trump already is squealing: “I got Impeached last night without one Republican vote being cast with the Do Nothing Dems on their continuation of the greatest Witch Hunt in American history,” he tweeted. “Now the Do Nothing Party want to Do Nothing with the Articles & not deliver them to the Senate, but it’s Senate's call!” It is actually the House's call when to transmit the articles.

Pelosi certainly wants to do more than merely decide what sort of floor managers she will need. She wants to pressure the Senate to have a real trial — specifically to subpoena key witnesses whom the president refused to make available to the House, including former national security adviser John Bolton and acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney. There are two ways she might accomplish the objective, depending upon how long she feels comfortable holding onto the articles.

First, she might lay down the marker: She will not contribute to a sham trial without witnesses. She will send the articles when the Senate agrees to abide by the process Graham demanded before the Clinton trial (when he pleaded for witnesses), as captured by the latest ad by Republicans for the Rule of Law.


LEFT: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Capitol Hill on October 15. RIGHT: Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (Republican-Kentucky) at the U.S. Capitol on Tuesday. — Photograph: Eric Baradat & Saul Loeb/Agence France-Presse/Getty Images.
LEFT: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Capitol Hill on October 15. RIGHT: Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (Republican-Kentucky)
at the U.S. Capitol on Tuesday. — Photograph: Eric Baradat & Saul Loeb/Agence France-Presse/Getty Images.


Trump can stew in his own bile until the Senate comes up with a fair process. But would Pelosi wait forever, never transmitting the articles?

She need not face that question, since there is another possible off-ramp. If McConnell and Republicans refuse to have an actual trial and three Republican senators are not brave enough to object, Pelosi could deploy a backup plan that also addresses Republicans' professed concerns that they wait on witnesses Trump has blocked by assertion of a phony “absolute immunity” claim.

Pelosi can wait to transmit the articles, now that impeachment is complete, until such time as the cases involving senior officials wind their way through the courts and reach a final ruling (likely at the Supreme Court level where cases concerning production of documents now rest). In short, she can wait until the Supreme Court frees up former White House counsel Donald McGahn and former deputy national security adviser Charles Kupperman (whose case Bolton said he would rely upon for guidance) to testify. (If the Senate still won't call them as witnesses, the House can hold additional hearings and supplement the record.)

Faced with a client frantic to get a Senate acquittal, Trump's attorneys might then have a real incentive to get the courts to expedite a determination on witnesses. Who knows? By next year, Bolton may have cashed in on his book deal, published his tell-all and supplied us with his firsthand account of Trump's extortion plot against Ukraine. Or even more likely, Trump's lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani and his henchmen might have disclosed even more damning information putting Trump at the center of the scheme to force Ukraine to assist Trump's campaign.

In short, Pelosi can give McConnell the chance to do the right thing. She can also give three Republicans the chance to do the right thing by insisting on fair rules. Ultimately, she can simply wait for the courts to do the right thing before entrusting the Senate with the articles of impeachment. We keep hearing from the Republicans that this whole process has been rushed. They might be pleased to learn Pelosi can slow things down. A lot.


__________________________________________________________________________

Jennifer Rubin writes reported opinion from a center-right perspective for The Washington Post. She covers a range of domestic and foreign policy issues and provides insight into the conservative movement, the Republican Party and threats to Western democracies. Rubin, who is also an MSNBC contributor, came to The Post after three years with Commentary magazine. Prior to her career in journalism, Rubin practiced labor law for two decades, an experience that informs and enriches her work. She is a mother of two sons and lives in Northern Virginia.

__________________________________________________________________________

Related to this topic:

 • Max Boot: Democrats can prevent a sham trial in the Senate if they hang tough

 • Jennifer Rubin: Republicans are outmatched, outwitted and outclassed


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/12/19/heres-how-long-pelosi-should-hold-onto-articles
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« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2019, 10:27:13 pm »


from The Washington Post…

Pelosi's delay sparks standoff with Senate GOP
over Trump impeachment trial


A day after the House impeached Trump, Pelosi refrained from sending
the charges to the Senate, engulfing a potential Senate trial in uncertainty.


By ROBERT COSTA, PHILIP RUCKER and RACHAEL BADE | 8:16PM EST — Thursday, December 19, 2019

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (Democrat-California) speaks at a news conference at the U.S. Capitol on Thursday. — Photograph: Astrid Riecken/for The Washington Post.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (Democrat-California) speaks at a news conference at the U.S. Capitol on Thursday.
 — Photograph: Astrid Riecken/for The Washington Post.


CONGRESS was paralyzed on Thursday over President Trump's impeachment as House Speaker Nancy Pelosi delayed acting to initiate the Senate trial that will determine whether Trump remains in office — a dramatic procedural move that places the two chambers at a bitter standoff.

A day after the House voted to impeach Trump, Pelosi (Democrat-California) announced she would refrain from transmitting the articles of impeachment to the Senate until Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (Republican-Kentucky) sets rules for the trial that are accepted by Senate Democrats.

The House voted on Thursday to adjourn for the holidays until January 7, throwing into doubt when the Senate might be able to begin its trial, potentially pushing it further into an election year and threatening to deny Trump the satisfaction of a swift acquittal.

Pelosi's maneuver underscored her eagerness to maintain control over the process rather than turning over the reins to McConnell. It was also part of a Democratic effort to pressure Senate Republicans to allow testimony from key Trump administration officials who had defied subpoenas during the House's inquiry.

“We ask, is the president's case so weak that none of the president's men can defend him under oath?” Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer (Democrat-New York) said.

Trump, McConnell and other Republicans cried foul, accusing Pelosi and the Democrats of having a weak case against the president for abuse of office and obstruction of Congress and effectively withholding those charges from Senate scrutiny.

“A political faction in the House of Representatives has succumbed to a partisan rage,” McConnell said. He argued that Pelosi has produced “the most rushed, least thorough and most unfair impeachment inquiry in modern history.”

It's still possible the Senate trial could move ahead relatively quickly if the two sides resolve their disputes in coming weeks. At the White House on Thursday, Trump was unbowed and predicted that he eventually would be acquitted.

“It doesn't feel like impeachment,” Trump told reporters in the Oval Office. “And you know what? It's a phony deal. And they cheapen the word ‘impeachment’. It's an ugly word, but they cheapen the word ‘impeachment’. That should never happen to another president.”

Asked about his strategy for the Senate trial, Trump emphasized his partisan advantage in that chamber: “We think that what [House Democrats] did is unconstitutional and the Senate is very, very capable.”

Sixty-seven senators out of 100 would have to vote against Trump for him to face removal, and the Democrats and their allies have just 47 seats in the chamber.

The skirmishes over procedure were just one front in the political war that erupted with Wednesday's impeachment vote.

Trump taunted Democrats by showcasing the party switch of Representative Jeff Van Drew of New Jersey, who opposed Trump's impeachment as a Democrat and officially joined the GOP on Thursday. As he and Van Drew sat in yellow armchairs in the Oval Office, Trump cast the Democratic Party as inhospitable to moderates, while Van Drew pledged his “undying support” to Trump.


Nancy Pelosi, center, holds hands with Representative Debbie Dingell (Democrat-Michigan) as they walk through the Capitol on Wednesday. — Photograph: J. Scott Applewhite/Associated Press.
Nancy Pelosi, center, holds hands with Representative Debbie Dingell (Democrat-Michigan) as they walk through
the Capitol on Wednesday. — Photograph: J. Scott Applewhite/Associated Press.


The president also ignored calls to apologize for attacking Representative Debbie Dingell (Democrat-Michigan) and her late husband, John, a World War II veteran and the longest-serving congressman in history. Onstage at a rally on Wednesday in Michigan, Trump suggested John Dingell was “looking up” from hell.

Most Republicans in Congress stopped short of condemning Trump for the remark, and White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham defended her boss.

“As we all know, the president is a counter-puncher,” Grisham said on ABC's “Good Morning America”, although Dingell died 10 months ago.

Democrats did not hold back from assailing Trump's character over the remark. Representative Daniel Kildee (Democrat-Michigan) called it “the definition of evil,” and Representative Joyce Beatty (Democrat-Ohio) added, “He's mentally ill.”

“What the president misunderstands is that cruelty is not wit,” Pelosi said. “Just because he gets a laugh for saying the cruel things that he says doesn't mean he's funny. It's not funny at all. It's very sad.”

The impeachment deliberations remained fluid — riven by acrimony, partisanship and debates over constitutional norms. There is no precedent for leaders to follow. Trump is the third U.S. president to face trial, but in the previous cases — including that of Richard M. Nixon, who resigned before he could be impeached — the House and Senate were controlled by the same party, making for more unified proceedings.

During President Bill Clinton's impeachment two decades ago, Senate leaders Trent Lott (Republican-Mississippi) and Thomas A. Daschle (Democrat-South Dakota) designed Clinton's trial on a bipartisan basis so that the parameters would pass with unanimous support from all senators.


Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (Republican-Kentucky) walks the hallway of the Capitol on Wednesday. — Photograph: Salwan Georges/The Washington Post.
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (Republican-Kentucky) walks the hallway of the Capitol on Wednesday.
 — Photograph: Salwan Georges/The Washington Post.


On Thursday afternoon, McConnell and Schumer spoke privately but failed to reach any agreement on the procedures for a Senate trial. McConnell later described the discussion as “cordial” but said the two sides “remain at an impasse.”

He suggested House leaders were reluctant to present their case in the Senate because it was so weak, saying, “We'll see whether House Democrats want to ever work up the courage to actually take their accusation to trial.”

Democrats noted that McConnell said this week he does not intend to be “impartial … at all,” saying that raises questions about the likely fairness of the proceeding.

The House recessed for the holidays on Thursday without voting on a resolution appointing impeachment “managers”, the House members who will act as prosecutors, an action that all but assured that articles of impeachment would not be delivered to the Senate until January.

Pelosi sought to tamp down suggestions that she intends to hold onto impeachment articles indefinitely to keep Trump from being acquitted, an idea that circulated among liberal lawmakers all week. The speaker said she was simply taking time to be deliberate about the next steps, including deciding whom to appoint as managers.

“We don't know the arena that we are in,” Pelosi said at a news conference, referring to the current lack of a plan by the Senate. She added, “We'd like to see a fair process. But we'll see what they have, and we'll be ready for whatever it is.”

Representative Denny Heck (Democrat-Washington) summed up the strategy by likening Pelosi to a basketball coach picking which players to put on the court.

“It's like a sports team,” Heck said. “The people that you have on the court or on the field depend on the circumstance, right? Who is the opposition? If you're in basketball, are you playing a tall lineup or a short, fast lineup? We don't know what the ground rules are yet, so how can we select our personnel?”

Senate Republicans, however, were contemptuous of the delay. Senator John Barrasso (Republican-Wyoming) said Pelosi's move “shows what a farce the entire impeachment process has been,” and he argued that Democrats “failed to make the case” and are looking for a way out.

Senator Lamar Alexander (Republican-Tennessee) said, “To put it politely, it's not her job, according to the Constitution, to tell the Senate how to try an impeachment. The Constitution says that the House has the sole power of impeachment. We respect that. And the Constitution also says the Senate has the sole power of how to try an impeachment.”


Senator Charles E. Grassley (Republican-Iowa) talks to reporters near the Senate floor on Thursday. — Photograph: Astrid Riecken/for The Washington Post.
Senator Charles E. Grassley (Republican-Iowa) talks to reporters near the Senate floor on Thursday.
 — Photograph: Astrid Riecken/for The Washington Post.


Senator Charles E. Grassley (Republican-Iowa) argued that the uncertainty over timing could cause scheduling conflicts for Supreme Court Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr., who is expected to preside over the trial while juggling arguments before the high court.

Even some House Democrats voiced discomfort with the delay.

“I think it'd be better if we just move things along a little bit,” said Representative Kurt Schrader (Democrat-Oregon), a centrist from a competitive district. “There's been all this speculation about trying to leverage some opportunities over there. I don't see that being likely with Mitch McConnell.”

But Republicans have their own disagreements about the contours of a trial. Trump is continuing to push his Senate allies to call a range of Republican-approved witnesses because he believes their testimonies could damage the Democrats' case, according to White House officials and informal presidential advisers.

Trump has long been eager for Senate Republicans to mount a full and vigorous defense of his conduct, even if the trial takes on a circus-like atmosphere.

But McConnell has reminded the president and his team that every witness request would need to be approved by a majority vote, saying that could put some Senate Republicans in a difficult political spot and that Democrats could also unearth embarrassing information with their questioning, according to several people familiar with the talks who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations.

Senate Democrats, meanwhile, have seized on McConnell's recent comments that he is closely coordinating with the White House to argue that Republicans do not plan to conduct a fair proceeding.

“I don't know how you have a trial without witnesses,” Senator Joe Manchin III (Democrat-West Virginia) said. “You have to look at evidence. You've got to have witnesses. I can't just have hearsay.” He added, “I want to make an intelligent decision. I want to be able to look people in the eye.”


__________________________________________________________________________

Josh Dawsey, Mike DeBonis, Seung Min Kim, Felicia Sonmez and John Wagner contributed to this report.

Robert Costa is a national political reporter for The Washington Post. He covers the White House, Congress, and campaigns. He joined The Post in January 2014. He is also the moderator of PBS's “Washington Week” and a political analyst for NBC News and MSNBC.

Philip Rucker is the White House Bureau Chief for The Washington Post. He previously has covered Congress, the Obama White House, and the 2012 and 2016 presidential campaigns. Rucker also is a Political Analyst for NBC News and MSNBC. He joined The Post in 2005 as a local news reporter.

Rachael Bade is a Congress reporter for The Washington Post, primarily focusing on the House. Her coverage areas include House Democrats' oversight of the Trump administration as well as policy clashes with the White House, the dynamics animating the historic freshman class and the inner workings of the Democratic leadership team. Rachael is also a political analyst for CNN. Rachael joined The Post in 2019 after six years with Politico. She started as a tax reporter, cutting her teeth on oversight coverage when House Republicans investigated the IRS's treatment of tea party groups. She later covered the GOP's investigation of the 2012 Benghazi terrorist attack, then the party's subsequent probe of Hillary Clinton's private email use. Bade spent three years covering House Republicans and President Trump's remaking of the party from her vantage point on Capitol Hill. Her stories have followed GOP infighting and frequently dish behind-the-scenes details about how policy decisions are made, illuminating the personalities and power struggles that affect the public. Bade worked for two years at CQ-Roll Call before Politico. An Ohio-native, she graduated from the University of Dayton with degrees in political science and communication. Bade is a former classical ballet dancer who still enjoys taking class occasionally. She runs, enjoys camping and yoga and lives with her husband, Alex, and two cats.

__________________________________________________________________________

Related to this topic:

 • VIDEO: Trump was impeached. Now what?

 • Trump's mean streak spares no one — living or dead

 • After Trump suggests John Dingell is in hell, Representative Debbie Dingell says: ‘My family's still hurting’


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/pelosis-delay-sparks-standoff-with-senate-gop-over-trump-impeachment-trial/2019/12/19/83cc3a1a-2270-11ea-a153-dce4b94e4249_story.html
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« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2019, 08:06:47 pm »

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Are you sick of the bullshit from the sewer stream media spewed out from the usual Ken and Barby dickless talking point look a likes.

If you want to know what's going on in the real world...
And the many things that will personally effect you.
Go to
http://www.infowars.com/

AND WAKE THE F_ _K UP
Kiwithrottlejockey
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« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2019, 08:14:52 pm »


I'd back Nancy in the staying power and intelligence stakes any day over Donald J. Trump.

She has already spanked him heaps of times and she'll spank him heaps more times too.

Trump is waaaaaay out of his depth when it comes to dealing with the intellect of Nancy.





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