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The problem in America isn't guns — it's WHITE MEN with guns…


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Author Topic: The problem in America isn't guns — it's WHITE MEN with guns…  (Read 91 times)
Kiwithrottlejockey
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« on: October 06, 2017, 02:47:50 am »


from the San Francisco Chronicle....

White men with guns are America's real terrorists
 — and the NRA is enabling them


By MARK MORFORD | 7:22AM PDT - Wednesday, October 04, 2017

A person lies on the ground at the Route 91 Harvest country music festival after gun fire was heard on October 1st, 2017, in Las Vegas, Nevada. — Photograph: David Becker/Getty Images.
A person lies on the ground at the Route 91 Harvest country music festival after gun fire was heard on October 1st, 2017,
in Las Vegas, Nevada. — Photograph: David Becker/Getty Images.


HE wasn't, apparently, a sociopath. He did not, to anyone who knew him, show any signs of mental illness, was not a fringe radical or a “nutjob”.

All initial indications are that Stephen Paddock, who just massacred as many as 59 people and seriously injured hundreds more, had no record of mental health problems, nothing to cause him to come unhinged or to “snap”. He apparently wasn't attacking a particular group, or race, or religion. According to his brother, he had no major affiliations at all, be they political, religious or otherwise.

The story might change and there are many unanswered questions, but right now it appears Paddock was just an older, retired, seemingly normal white guy who lived a quiet life in Nevada, playing slots, watching concerts, “hanging out”. He had no criminal record.

In other words, he was yet another “average” white American male who had easy access to all the powerful guns he wanted, pre-planning a massive stash of military-grade death machines found in his Mandalay Bay hotel room, all easily obtained by just about anyone who wants them, with minimal background checks and increasingly lax, idiotic ownership laws (and Nevada has some of the most lax in the nation) — including ownership by the mentally ill, because the NRA is a morbid cult of terrified white males, and Trump is anything if not obeisant to his hateful base.

You disagree? You think only a true sociopath could do something like this? That Paddock must have been crazy, mentally unstable, a nut, regardless of any medical diagnosis? You think no “normal” person could ever do something like this?

You are wrong. The mental illness argument is convenient lie, a myth foisted by the NRA and beloved by hardcore gun nuts everywhere.


Las Vegas police and emergency vehicles sit on scene early on Monday, October 2nd, 2017, following a deadly shooting at a music festival on the Las Vegas Strip. — Photograph: Chase Stevens/Associated Press.
Las Vegas police and emergency vehicles sit on scene early on Monday, October 2nd, 2017, following a deadly shooting
at a music festival on the Las Vegas Strip. — Photograph: Chase Stevens/Associated Press.


People run from the Route 91 Harvest country music festival after gun fire was heard on October 1st, 2017, in Las Vegas, Nevada. A gunman opened fire on a music festival in Las Vegas, leaving at least 59 people dead and more than 500 injured. — Photograph: David Becker/Getty Images.
People run from the Route 91 Harvest country music festival after gun fire was heard on October 1st, 2017, in Las Vegas, Nevada.
A gunman opened fire on a music festival in Las Vegas, leaving at least 59 people dead and more than 500 injured.
 — Photograph: David Becker/Getty Images.


Fact is, “normal” people commit vicious atrocities every single day, to the tune of tens of thousands of gun attacks in America every year: murders, suicides, spousal killing, mass shootings, revenge attacks, dead wives and girlfriend and children, church-goers and UPS workers and nightclub patrons. There has been, on average, a mass shooting nearly every day in America since the Sandy Hook massacre in December of 2012, totaling nearly 1,400, and counting. And the vast majority of such shootings are at the hand of — you guessed it — white American males. We must repeat it every single time: No other industrialized nation has this problem, and surely they have as many “sociopaths”, per capita, as America.

Put another way: Even if it turns out Paddock suffered from depression or some strain of mental illness, mass shootings and gun violence in America are not, by and large, mental health issues.

Translation: It's the guns. It's the guns. It's the guns. It's the NRA and their vicious hate campaigns, their lies about “protecting your family” and “shooting for fun” and “if only more people had guns this would never happen”, which is not only exactly the inverse of true, it's one of the most sinister, devastating lies ever forced down the throat of a nation. It's their nasty appeal to white males, training them to fear, well, everything and anything: the government, blacks, terrorists, women, Obama, liberals, free speech, human rights.

Here's the obvious, albeit tragic prediction: Nothing will change. Also, this will happen again. Officially, the Vegas massacre is now the worst of its kind in recent American history, the most horrific mass shooting since, well, the last one, gun violence ever remaining the ugliest and most shameful aspect of American life. And the gun lobby, to put it bluntly, could not be happier.

Despite it all, despite all the calls for new gun control laws and the wails of the mourning families, nothing will change. Not because it can't, not because guns are too entrenched (they're not; nothing is), but because no one on Congress has the nerve, or the moral compass, to make real change happen. As famously tweeted once before, the gun control debate in America ended after Sandy Hook. Once Americans deemed it OK to massacre children, it was over.

This is doubly true today, under the violence-loving Trump regime and a GOP that takes in millions of dollars in donations/handouts from the NRA ($32 million in campaign donations to Trump/Pence in 2016 alone — a record — along with nearly another million spread among dozens of GOP congressmen). We also have a thuggish ogre of a president, one who stops just short of endorsing outright violence against those who oppose, or even just disagree, with him — women, blacks, immigrants, the poor, smart people, liberals, scientists, journalists, humanity itself.


People scramble for shelter at the Route 91 Harvest country music festival after gun fire was heard on October 1st, 2017, in Las Vegas, Nevada. — Photograph: David Becker/Getty Images.
People scramble for shelter at the Route 91 Harvest country music festival after gun fire was heard on October 1st, 2017,
in Las Vegas, Nevada. — Photograph: David Becker/Getty Images.


A body lies under a sheet as fire and rescue personnel gather at the intersection of Las Vegas Boulevard and Tropicana Avenue after a mass shooting at a country music festival nearby on October 1st, 2017, in Las Vegas, Nevada. — Photograph: Ethan Miller/Getty Images.
A body lies under a sheet as fire and rescue personnel gather at the intersection of Las Vegas Boulevard and Tropicana Avenue
after a mass shooting at a country music festival nearby on October 1st, 2017, in Las Vegas, Nevada.
 — Photograph: Ethan Miller/Getty Images.


Drapes billow out of broken windows at the Mandalay Bay resort and casino Monday, October 2nd, 2017, on the Las Vegas Strip following a deadly shooting at a music festival in Las Vegas. A gunman was found dead inside a hotel room. — Photograph: John Locher/Associated Press.
Drapes billow out of broken windows at the Mandalay Bay resort and casino on Monday, October 2nd, 2017, on the Las Vegas Strip
following a deadly shooting at a music festival in Las Vegas. A gunman was found dead inside a hotel room.
 — Photograph: John Locher/Associated Press.


Shall we pause for a moment to imagine if Paddock had been black, or Latino, or Muslim? The racist screams from the Right? How Trump would be calling for everyone to buy even more guns, ban all immigrants forever, give police more power and less oversight, allow open carry in kindergarten? The fact Paddock was an average white male — very much the typical profile for a shooter in America, by the way — points to the darker, ongoing truth, one that speaks to white privilege, the lie of the “lone wolf” shooter, and the easy scapegoat of calling such acts “evil”, when brutal shootings are, in fact, everyday occurrences in America.

Let us be as clear as possible: Guns and gun culture remain the most shameful, destructive aspects of America, and the NRA is America's truest terrorist organization, akin to a death cult, one fueled by — and openly promoting — only the most fearful aspects of the human psyche. It's a calculated message, it's intentional, and it's destroying us from within.

In other words: There is no light here. There is no hope, love, kindness or inclusiveness anywhere in the rabid push for more guns in America. Guns offer nothing of true value or moral good to a society. They bring only pain and rage. They bring only death.

Guns have, after all, but a single destiny. They are designed, manufactured and sold for one perfectly bleak, ruinous purpose: the annihilation of life.

As I wrote in a previous, post mass-shooting column:


Quote
Guns are unparalleled, really; they are small masterpieces of precision engineering, one of humanity's most deliberate, perfectly designed tools. There is simply no denying a gun's intention, no possible misunderstanding of its reason for existing.

Unlike cars, knives, drugs, alcohol or any other freely available, potentially deadly items which can (and do) kill lots of people, guns are the only commercially available instrument in the world that we designed specifically for the purpose of the eradication of life. A gun's nature is, as they say in the tech world, baked in to the hardware. It understands nothing else.

Which is to say: Guns are death made physical, palpable in the hand. They are our basest, least sacred energies — hate, fear, paranoia — compressed into metal and explosives. No one holds or fires a gun without some fundamental understanding of this fact — that he could, if he so desired, kill anything he wanted, right now, in an instant — and that's essentially all you're supposed do with it.

The equation, then, is simple enough: the more guns we numbly pump into the culture — more than 300 million, at latest estimate, far more than any other developed nation on Earth, by many orders of magnitude — the more that grim destiny will continue to be fulfilled.

• Mark Morford has been providing hyper-literate, award-winning commentary and cultural criticism to the San Francisco Chronicle and SFGate since 1998, which probably astounds him more than it does you. He's also one of the Bay Area's premier yoga instructors, leading classes, workshops and retreats in SF and around the world since 2001. Read his latest stories, follow him on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram, or just visit MarkMorford.com for the whole of it.

http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/White-men-with-guns-are-America-s-real-12246941.php
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Kiwithrottlejockey
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« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2017, 05:57:12 pm »


Yep....exterminate all of the stupid white men with guns in America and a huge proportion of the country's gun-deaths problem will simply disappear.

Gas chambers and cremators should do the trick.
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« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2017, 09:23:18 pm »

yes you will make a great nazi

meanwhile

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« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2017, 09:42:28 pm »


Gun-totting wankers claim that “guns don't kill people, people kill people!”

So the solution is simple....kill everybody who owns a gun and then guns won't be used in killing people again.
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« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2017, 09:49:21 pm »

KTJ, since you want to play the race card(with a losing hand)  please google the number of people in the USA shot by blacks and get back to me. Cheers.
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« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2017, 09:51:50 pm »

KTJ wants all New Zealand farmers and hunters to be shot. Strange.
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« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2017, 09:55:27 pm »

KTJ wants all New Zealand farmers and hunters to be shot. Strange.


Well, you are on record as posting that ONLY GOVERNMENT PERSONEL should have access to firearms.

As farmers and hunters aren't government personnel, this means you have a history of denying access to firearms for farmers and hunters.
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« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2017, 09:57:31 pm »

KTJ, since you want to play the race card(with a losing hand)  please google the number of people in the USA shot by blacks and get back to me. Cheers.


Almost ALL mass-shootings in the USA are carried out by WHITE MEN.

So if righties wish to claim that firearms aren't the problem, then it stands to reason that WHITE MEN armed with guns are the problem when it comes to mass-shootings.
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« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2017, 09:59:09 pm »

Here are some inconvenient facts to help you get your head out of the LA Time's idiot arses..




I hope this helps. What percentage of the USA population is black again?
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« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2017, 10:01:01 pm »

The issue is culture, not race. Only thickos and lefties obsess over race.
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« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2017, 10:13:21 pm »


Tell me.....how many of those killings in that chart are MASS-SHOOTINGS?

The fact that they don't clearly identify which are mass shootings speaks volumes.

They want to hide the fact that most MASS-SHOOTINGS in America are carried out by whities.
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« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2017, 01:26:02 pm »

Look closer. Per capita black men are far more likely to murder.
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« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2017, 01:27:37 pm »

It's actually not about race at all, but about culture. Gun nut culture and feral dropkick culture.
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« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2017, 02:55:58 pm »

...hey...adj....there ya go again.....trying to use logic and facts with ktj......🙄

...well...I guess we gotta keep on trying....😳
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« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2017, 09:20:59 pm »


from the Los Angeles Times....

Of course we need to talk about gun violence in America.
The question is how to do it effectively.


“Instead of focusing on mass killings, we need to address
everyday gun violence. That is where laws can work.”


By ADAM WINKLER | 4:00AM PDT - Friday, October 06, 2017

Students learn how to fire a pistol during an NRA Basic Pistol Course on “Gun Appreciation Day” in Tinley Park, Illinois on January 19th, 2012. — Photograph: Scott Olson/Getty Images.
Students learn how to fire a pistol during an NRA Basic Pistol Course on “Gun Appreciation Day” in Tinley Park, Illinois on January 19th, 2012.
 — Photograph: Scott Olson/Getty Images.


AFTER a horrific tragedy like the Las Vegas massacre, Americans argue about whether it's the right time to talk about our gun violence problem. The real issue is not when to discuss it, but how. In all the words we've heard since Sunday night, this much is clear: We don't talk about guns and gun violence the right way.

We ask, for example, what can be done to stop mass shootings from happening again. But we can't eliminate shootings any more than we can end drug use or drunk driving. The proper question is what can be done to lower the number of incidents and reduce the harm from each one.

And then there are the numbers: Las Vegas is a painful illustration of the way we focus too intently on gun deaths. It's the worst modern U.S. mass shooting because there were 58 deaths, in contrast to the previous high of 49 in the Pulse nightclub massacre in Orlando, Florida. Yet there were so many other victims in Las Vegas.

According to police, 489 people were wounded, most by gunshot. That's more than eight times the number of fatalities. The wounded will live, but in many cases their lives will be forever altered by devastating injuries, lengthy recoveries, emotional problems and medical debts.

Thanks to the spread of trauma centers and advances in medical care, a higher percentage of victims of gunshot wounds survive than ever before. More than 33,000 people die in gun violence in the U.S. each year; 70,000 suffer from non-fatal gun injuries. The toll of gun violence is 100,000-plus victims a year.

And even that figure is too low. The ripple effect of all the carnage, from the wounded as well as the dead, extends to victims' spouses, family members, close friends and co-workers. The costs — the waste inherent in the violence — cannot be fully quantified, but studies indicate that firearms injuries, fatal and non-fatal combined, drain the economy of at least $48 billion annually in lost work and medical expenses.

Another error we make is devoting inordinate attention to mass shootings. To be sure, an attack on thousands of people in one of the most frequented tourist destinations in the country warrants the extensive coverage devoted to the Las Vegas shooting. As psychologists have pointed out, random killings in a public space — something we can all imagine happening to us — rivets our attention.

Mass shootings are a particularly hard problem to stop in a country with 320 million guns. In the U.S., most mass shooters, including Stephen Paddock, easily pass background checks and obtain their guns legally. Yet mass shootings occur even in countries with much more restrictive gun laws than the U.S. — Norway and France, for example. Australia's gun control laws are often cited as a model, but there are still millions of guns in that country — as many as prior to the reforms — that a would-be mass shooter could use.

Instead of focusing on mass killings, we need to address everyday gun violence. That is where laws can work. Lowering the daily toll of gun violence — the criminal misuse of firearms, accidents and suicides — is within our reach, through universal background checks, safe storage rules and more vigorous prosecution of gun trafficking. The gains could be huge: Nearly 275 people a day suffer “normal” gun violence. The weekly total — around 1,925 people — is more than triple the number of wounded and dead in Las Vegas.

And can we talk about suicide? Among gun casualties, 60% come from suicide. We spend hours discussing what we can to do prevent mass shootings, which account for only a fraction of gun victims, and almost no time on preventing the most common way guns are misused.

Here's another mistake we make in the gun debate: Too often we hear — and believe — that the “right to bear arms” prevents us from enacting new, better gun safety laws. The National Rifle Association has convinced us that the 2nd Amendment outlaws even popular measures like universal background checks or a no-buy list for suspected terrorists. Some gun opponents unwittingly contribute to this misunderstanding when they argue that we should repeal the 2nd Amendment.

Although the Supreme Court in 2008 held in District of Columbia versus Heller that individuals have a right to have guns, the justices also made clear that most gun laws are nonetheless constitutional. Indeed, since Heller was decided, federal courts have ruled in favor of gun control laws in approximately 95% of 2nd Amendment cases.

It's the NRA, not the Constitution, that stands in the way of many of these laws. Where the gun group is weaker — in California, New York and Massachusetts — gun laws are much tougher. You might be nodding in agreement, but again, perhaps for the wrong reason. It's easy to cast the gun rights group as a shill for the gun industry swaying elected officials with abundant campaign contributions. Although the NRA wouldn't be the force it is without campaign money, the real basis of its influence is its ability to command influential blocs of single-issue, pro-gun voters. Lawmakers kow-tow not for dollar contributions but for fear the NRA will endorse their opponents in the next election cycle, and those dedicated voters will listen.

And this is the final error of today's gun debate. We misunderstand our own control over gun violence. The lack of effective gun control is not due to a few words in the Bill of Rights or the campaign cash of an interest group. America's gun laws are a function of the democratic process, and the electoral strength of those who oppose restrictive measures despite majorities that favor them. Obsessing over shooters like the Las Vegas killer won't make us much safer. Grasping the real dimensions of everyday gun violence — and acting accordingly to try to stop it — will.


• Adam Winkler is a professor of law at UCLA and the author of Gun Fight: The Battle over the Right to Bear Arms in America.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-winkler-wrong-debate-on-guns-20171006-story.html
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« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2017, 10:15:56 pm »

only problem america has is the white communist trash who fuck up everything

All the filthy anti human commie scum are in need of mass extermination
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« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2017, 10:43:21 pm »


So when are you going to move to America to deal to all the filthy anti human commie scum who are in need of mass extermination?

Go on, be brave....Woodville will still be there when you get back, although it may be dead and deserted, depending upon how long you are away.

Just think of all those retarded southerners you could link up with in Jesusland, eh?

Hey, you could even attend one of their fucked-up Baptist churches to receive a weekly brainwashing session for stupid people while you are there.


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« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2017, 01:47:20 pm »


The entire front page of the Saturday print edition of the Los Angeles Times is taken up with a montage of photographs of the deceased victims of the white-trash gunman's rampage in Las Vegas, Nevada last Sunday night (USA-time).

A monument to the victims of yet another WHITE MAN in the USA with a SHITLOAD of GUNS and a FUCKED-UP ATTITUDE that goes with those GUNS to compensate for his small penis.
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« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2017, 03:37:27 pm »


from the Los Angeles Times....

Trump's ardent pro-gun stance is new, but will
Las Vegas force him to give ground?


He has a mixed record on firearms.
After the Las Vegas shooting, activists on both sides have expectations.


By NOAH BIERMAN | 3:00AM PDT - Saturday, October 07, 2017

Donald Trump with Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of the National Rifle Association, at the organization's 2016 national convention. — Photograph: Scott Olson/Getty Images.
Donald Trump with Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of the National Rifle Association, at the organization's
2016 national convention. — Photograph: Scott Olson/Getty Images.


THE pro-gun community had reason to be suspicious of Donald Trump.

He wrote in favor of an assault weapons ban and a “slightly longer” waiting period before gun purchases in a 2000 book, and accused Republicans of walking “the NRA line”. And even as he rebranded himself a “2nd Amendment maven” in 2013, he sounded conflicted, suggesting he favored expanded background checks.

No one on either side of the gun debate seems to know exactly when or why Trump shifted. But they agree that the mogul from Manhattan has become one of the most forceful pro-gun presidents in decades.

Now, after the worst mass shooting in American history, Trump faces a gut-check moment on guns. He could not have imagined that within his first year as president he would come under pressure, even from within his typically pro-gun party, to support legislation restricting gun use, however limited — in this case, a ban on so-called bump-fire stocks like the Las Vegas shooter used, which turn semi-automatic weapons into virtual machine guns.

White House officials, both privately and publicly, insist he is not likely to endorse fundamental change, that is, broader gun controls. Meanwhile, the gun lobby is watching.

“When a crisis happens you can really tell who your friends are,” said Dudley Brown, president of the National Association for Gun Rights, which advertises itself as more hard-line on gun rights than the NRA.

For decades, as he flirted with presidential runs, Trump tried to stake a position between what he called, in 2000, “the extremes of the two existing major parties”.

In his book that year, The America We Deserve, Trump accused Democrats of trying to confiscate all guns and Republicans of refusing even limited restrictions because of the NRA's hold on the party. In a brief, four-paragraph section on guns, between multi-page sections on “prisons” and “capital punishment”, Trump wrote that he supported President Clinton's assault-weapons ban along with a brief waiting period for gun buyers.

Eleven years earlier, in a 1989 interview on MSNBC, Trump seemed even more ambivalent about gun rights.

Saying he owned “a couple of guns,” he added: “Now, I hate the concept of guns. I'm not in favor of it, except for one thing: the bad guys are going to have them.” He would be “all for” a total ban — if “you could take the guns away from the bad guys.”

Trump had not renounced those positions as late as 2013, when he told radio host Howard Stern that the focus should be on gun purchasers' medical problems and past records.

“It's a very, very difficult subject, but you need guns for protection,” he told Stern.

That ambivalence vanished when Trump ran for president and tried to distinguish himself in a crowded Republican primary. He boasted in a 2015 debate of carrying weapons “on occasion — sometimes a lot.”

“Opponents of gun rights try to come up with scary-sounding phrases like ‘assault weapons’, ‘military-style weapons’ and ‘high-capacity magazines’ to confuse people,” Trump said in a campaign position paper. “Law-abiding people should be allowed to own the firearm of their choice. The government has no business dictating what types of firearms good, honest people are allowed to own.”

The NRA helped to elect Trump, spending more than $30 million and endorsing him at a point in the campaign when many Republicans were still reluctant to support him, even as he closed in on enough delegates to get the party's nomination.

Trump returned the favor with some of the strongest pro-gun rhetoric ever delivered by a presidential candidate. He told an NRA audience that Democratic rival Hillary Clinton wanted to destroy the 2nd Amendment and that terrorist attacks in Paris and San Bernardino would have been stopped if more victims were armed.

He said of the Paris attackers in the November 2015 incident: “They just stood there and shot everybody.”

“If you would have had guns on the other side,” he added, “I promise there wouldn't have been 130 people killed and hundreds of people lying in the hospital to this day.”

Trump has sought to fortify his gun-loving credentials by association with his sons, Eric and Donald Jr., who have been photographed hunting exotic animals in Africa. “They have so many rifles and so many guns, even I get concerned,” Trump joked at the NRA conference.

He endorsed a national right to carry, regardless of local laws that are restrictive, and promised, on his first day in office, to eliminate restrictions on bringing guns within 1,000 feet of primary and secondary schools.

Trump failed to overturn the federal gun-free-zone law, an action that requires Congress to pass repeal legislation. Yet he has generally pleased the gun lobby since taking office.

In February, the president signed into law a measure overturning an Obama administration rule that would have denied gun access to about 75,000 Social Security beneficiaries per year who had been declared both incapable of handling their own affairs and mentally incompetent.

Trump's Justice Department narrowed the definition of fugitive under federal gun laws, clearing the way for thousands of additional people to buy guns, according to The Trace, a news site supported by advocates of gun limits. And his Interior secretary, Ryan Zinke, overturned a ban on using lead ammunition on wildlife refuges.

Gun groups are hoping for more, including measures in Congress that would make it easier to buy silencers and for veterans deemed mentally incompetent to carry a firearm. A separate measure would allow people who have permits under state law to carry guns anywhere in the country, regardless of local laws.

Now it is Trump who is owned by the NRA, gun control groups say.

Speaking of NRA members, Kris Brown, co-president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, said, “I suppose they're betting people, and having put all of their money into candidate Trump, they're expecting that he’s bought and paid for.”

Yet Brown and others on her side are hoping Trump will shift again. “He has a real moment here,” Brown said, adding, “I'm not Pollyannaish about things.”

After Sunday's Las Vegas attack, Trump echoed rhetoric that the NRA and its supporters often use following mass shootings, saying it was too soon to talk about gun policy. But he and his administration dropped hints that he might be open to discussion in time.

“We'll talk about gun laws as time goes by,” Trump said on Tuesday, ahead of a visit to Las Vegas.

By Thursday, after the NRA said there should be restrictions on bump stocks — but through regulation, not a new law — White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said the administration was eager to have that conversation. But she added that Trump is “a strong supporter of the 2nd Amendment. That hasn't changed.”

Another White House official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said that Trump was most likely to back narrow measures. The official said Trump would also continue to appoint judges and other officials who share his view of expansive 2nd Amendment rights.

The NRA, which is often silent after mass shootings, did not respond to several requests for comment.

At the National Association for Gun Rights, Dudley Brown said he is fighting to make sure Trump doesn't act. But he's not especially worried.

“There certainly was some question about his history, especially when you're not an elected official in any manner,” he said. But, Brown added, “This administration has done much better than we thought.”


• Noah Bierman covers the White House in Washington, D.C. for the Los Angeles Times. Before joining the newspaper in 2015, he worked for The Boston Globe in both Boston and Washington, covering Congress, politics and transportation in the immediate aftermath of the Big Dig. He has also reported on higher education, crime, politics and local government for the Miami Herald, the Palm Beach Post and the Duluth (Minnesota) News-Tribune. Bierman is a native of Miami who attended Duke University.

__________________________________________________________________________

Related to this topic:

 • The NRA, steadfastly against expanded gun regulation, now is ready to compromise on ‘bump stock’ devices. What happened?

 • Republicans and NRA shift ground, say they will consider limiting firearm ‘bump stocks’

 • Hey, NRA: Stop assuming everyone who's a good guy will never become a bad guy

 • ‘Thoughts and prayers’ — and fistfuls of NRA money: Why America can't control guns


http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-guns-20171006-story.html
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« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2017, 02:07:00 pm »


from The New York Times....

N.R.A. and G.O.P., Together Forever

Don’t be fooled. Republicans and the gun lobby are still very much in love.

By CHARLES J. SYKES | Sunday, October 08, 2017

Donald J. Trump addressing the National Rifle Association convention last year. — Photograph: Ty Wright/The New York Times.
Donald J. Trump addressing the National Rifle Association convention last year.
 — Photograph: Ty Wright/The New York Times.


FOR YEARS, Republicans have effectively outsourced their thought leadership to the loudmouths at the end of the bar. But perhaps the most extreme example of that trend has been the issue of guns, where the party has ceded control to a gun lobby that has built its brand on absolutism.

And now, again, we are about to see the consequences of that abdication. Congress did nothing in the wake of the mass murder of children at Sandy Hook, and except for a largely symbolic ban on bump stocks, it's likely that nothing meaningful will happen in the aftermath of the shootings in Las Vegas. Instead, Republicans will round up all the usual clichés and excuses for inaction.

We've seen this before, and it is a script written by the National Rifle Association. The N.R.A.'s blessing of restrictions on bump stocks — devices that make semi-automatic weapons fire faster — is designed to pre-empt anything more serious by giving the illusion of action. It substitutes accessory control for actual gun control.

I saw first-hand how the N.R.A. worked six years ago when I was a conservative radio talk show host in Wisconsin. The context is important here: I was a longtime supporter of Second Amendment rights and had backed state legislation that would allow law-abiding citizens who passed training courses and background checks to carry concealed weapons (as every state now allows in some form). More than 16 million Americans have the permits.

In 2011, concealed-carry legislation was poised to pass both houses of the Wisconsin Legislature until the N.R.A. decided that it did not go far enough. It insisted that the Second Amendment should preclude even minimal safety requirements for concealed carry. The N.R.A., claiming that it was supporting what it calls “constitutional carry,” demanded that anyone be allowed to carry a concealed handgun without training, background checks or permits of any kind.

I thought this was nuts and said so. The N.R.A. position made no sense from the standpoint of either public safety or politics. How would an unlimited right to carry weapons enhance public safety or confidence if you could walk into Milwaukee's Miller Park with a handgun without any training or a permit? That would be a nightmare for law enforcement and frankly unsettling even for many ardent Second Amendment supporters.

But the national gun rights lobby pushed back hard, targeting me and a radio colleague who thought the idea defied common sense. The headline on one pro-gun website declared, “N.R.A. Calls Out Milwaukee Talk Show Hosts for Ignorant Stance on Right to Carry.”

Darren LaSorte, a former lobbyist for the N.R.A. Institute for Legislative Action, appeared on an internet broadcast, insisting that “it's embarrassing to see them do that.” By suggesting that people learn to use a gun before carrying it out in public, he said, my colleague and I “probably did more harm to constitutional carry and the fight there than any other people out there, the anti-gunners or anyone else.”

N.R.A. members, he said, “should be actively hammering them.” Many of them did so, as my email overflowed with angry gun-rights activists demanding unfettered concealed carry. But when I opened up the phones to listeners, the response was quite different. As polls suggest, most gun owners take a far more reasonable stance than the gun lobby. My listeners overwhelmingly supported gun rights but thought that requirements for background checks, safety training and permits just made sense.

Despite a costly campaign that flooded legislators with emails and calls, the N.R.A. lost its bid for “constitutional carry” in Wisconsin. But the organization is back again this year, pushing ahead with a new effort to eliminate the licensing and training requirements for concealed carry here and elsewhere. And the N.R.A. remains on the offensive: 12 states allow concealed carry without a permit.

Since we beat the N.R.A. back six years ago, the political environment on guns has shifted quite a bit. President Trump seems to understand not only that the gun issue helped him win states like Michigan and Wisconsin but also that opposition to gun control has now become a central test of loyalty in our tribal politics.

This is what many of the N.R.A.'s critics have been slow to grasp: The N.R.A. has successfully taken the issue of rational gun regulation out of the policy realm and made it a central feature of the culture wars. The issue is no longer simply about bump stock, or assault weapons, or specific regulations, or public safety; the debate over guns has become a subset of the larger cultural clash that pits us against them — liberals versus “normal” Americans. As Kurt Schlichter, a conservative columnist, insisted last week, “Leftists hate our rights because they hate us.”

The N.R.A. has pursued that strategy relentlessly and with great effect. It was hardly a coincidence that it decided to wade into the controversy over N.F.L. players' kneeling during the playing of the national anthem. The group put out a video called “We Stand”, which linked the themes of freedom, patriotism and guns. “I stand for the children, the spouses and parents whose family made the ultimate sacrifice for us,” the narrator says. “We are all standing. We are the National Rifle Association of America and we are freedom's safest place.”

In a recent video starring Dana Loesch, a popular radio talk show host, the N.R.A. checked all the boxes of the culture wars. Featuring apocalyptic images of protests and violence, the spot targeted educational indoctrination in the schools, Hollywood leftism and liberal news media bias. “The only way we stop this, the only way we save our country and our freedom, is to fight this violence of lies with the clenched fist of truth,” Ms. Loesch declares.

The video was part of a larger strategy. Last fall, the N.R.A. started its own television news outlet, known as NRATV. As Adam Winkler, a law professor at U.C.L.A. and the author of Gunfight: The Battle Over the Right to Bear Arms in America, notes, NRATV does not focus merely on guns. “Now it's focused on immigration, race, health care,” he told The New Republic. “We're seeing the N.R.A. become an extreme right-wing media outlet, not just a protector of guns.”

It's actually more than that. The N.R.A. has effectively turned itself into the ID of the right. Despite the largely symbolic ban on bump stocks, the result is paralysis, both political and moral.

There was a time when the Republican Party could discuss possible reforms to our gun laws: Ronald Reagan himself endorsed the Brady Bill and the assault weapons ban that passed in 1994. But today, no matter how horrified decent Republicans are by the carnage, they understand that any meaningful response is now impossible. In the face of unconscionable bloodshed, the party is forced again to argue that there is really no public policy response regarding guns, that there is nothing they can do, besides a largely tactical retreat that will allow the cycle of carnage and cowardice to repeat itself.


• Charles J. Sykes (@SykesCharlie), is a former talk-show host in Wisconsin, is the author of How the Right Lost Its Mind.

__________________________________________________________________________

Related to this topic:

 • Confessions of a Sensible Gun Owner


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/07/opinion/sunday/nra-republicans-gun-lobby.html
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« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2017, 08:34:30 pm »


from The Washington Post....

At least 26 dead in South Texas church shooting, officials say

The shooting occurred at a church in South Texas, not far from San Antonio.

By PETER HOLLEY, EVA RUTH MORAVEC, KRISTINE PHILLIPS and WESLEY LOWERY | 10:14PM EST - Sunday, November 05, 2017

The scene of a fatal shooting at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, near San Antonio. — Photograph: Nick Wagner/Austin American-Statesman/Associated Press.
The scene of a fatal shooting at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, near San Antonio.
 — Photograph: Nick Wagner/Austin American-Statesman/Associated Press.


SUTHERLAND SPRINGS, TEXAS — A lone gunman stormed into a small community church here on Sunday and shot and killed more than two dozen people before fleeing and later being found dead several miles from the scene, authorities said.

Witnesses said a white male in his 20s, dressed in all black and wearing a tactical vest, started shooting with an assault rifle as he approached the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs. Police say the gunman killed two people outside before entering the church and spraying bullets throughout the congregation during morning services in this countryside town about 30 miles southeast of San Antonio. Dozens of people were hit with bullets, and the dead ranged in age from 5 to 72, authorities said. Most were shot in the pews as they worshiped.

“At this moment in time, there are 26 lives that have been lost,” Texas Governor Greg Abbott said during an early evening news conference. “We don't know if that number will rise or not, all we know is that's too many and this will be a long, suffering mourning for those in pain.”

Two law enforcement officials told The Washington Post that the suspect has been identified as Devin Kelley, 26, a Texas man who lived in a nearby county. Those officials did not see any immediate sign that he was motivated by international terror groups, but they cautioned that the investigation is still in its early stages.

Authorities had not yet provided any information about a possible motive for the shooting as of Sunday evening, and residents of this small out-of-the-way town said they were rattled and dumbfounded to become yet another U.S. community victimized by an inexplicable mass shooting.

Neighbors said they became aware of the shooting when they heard loud bangs — and even had bullets spray into their homes — shortly after 11 a.m. on Sunday. Local authorities said the first calls of an active shooter came at about 11:20 a.m., after the gunman opened fire with a Ruger assault rifle.

Kevin Jordan, 30, was changing the oil in his Ford Focus ahead of a family road trip when he heard the pops of gunfire. When he stood up and turned his head, he saw a man wearing body armor, a vest and a mask walking down the sidewalk towards the church about 50 yards from his home.

“He was just spraying at the front of the church,” Jordan said. “He was shooting outside at first and then he walked to the door and started shooting inside.”


Law enforcement at the church. ABC affiliate KSAT reports that a man walked into the church, opened fire and was later killed by police. A dispatcher for the Wilson County sheriff declined to confirm and said information would be released later. — Photograph: Max Massey/KSAT 12/Reuters.
Law enforcement at the church. ABC affiliate KSAT reports that a man walked into the church, opened fire and was later killed. A dispatcher for
the Wilson County sheriff declined to confirm and said information would be released later. — Photograph: Max Massey/KSAT 12/Reuters.


Wilson County Commissioner Albert Gamez Jr. said 26 are dead and more than 20 injured. The gunman has been killed, he said. — Photograph: Nick Wagner/Austin American-Statesman/Associated Press.
Wilson County Commissioner Albert Gamez Jr. said 26 are dead and more than 20 injured. The gunman has been killed, he said.
 — Photograph: Nick Wagner/Austin American-Statesman/Associated Press.


Authorities said that at least 23 of the slain were killed inside the church, two people were shot and killed outside, and one additional person died at an area hospital. As the gunman exited the church, he was confronted by a local citizen who, armed with his own weapon, began firing — prompting the suspect to flee in his vehicle.

“The local citizen pursued him,” said Freeman Martin, a regional director for the Texas Department of Public Service, who said the gunman crashed off of the roadway about 11 miles north of the shooting scene and was later found there, dead. “We don't know if it was a self-inflicted gunshot wound or if he was shot by our local resident who engaged him in a gunfight.”

Authorities said they found multiple weapons in the gunman's vehicle.

After spotting the shooter, Jordan said he ran inside his home, scooped up his son and grabbed his wife and rushed his family inside his bathroom, where they crouched down and hid while calling 911. He said the shooter spotted him as he fled and took a shot that went though his front window, nearly hitting his 2-year-old son.

“I looked at the shooter and he looked right at me,” he said.  When the shooting stopped, Jordan, who works as a medical assistant, ran to the church, hoping to help.

“I walked inside and just walked out — I couldn't handle it,” he said. “It was bad. A lot of blood and bodies. The pews were knocked over. I'm a medical assistant and medical assisting does not prepare you for this.”

Tucked a few hundred yards off Highway 87, amid scrubby farmland, the dusty and usually quiet streets of Sutherland Springs, lined with modest one-story family homes and trailers, were swarming with law enforcement on Sunday evening. With few street lights, a town that typically goes dark after sundown had flashing red and blue police lights on almost every block.


A helicopter flies near the site of the mass shooting in Sutherland Springs, a small town more than 30 miles southeast of San Antonio. — Photograph: Max Massey/KSAT 12/Reuters.
A helicopter flies near the site of the mass shooting in Sutherland Springs, a small town more than 30 miles southeast of San Antonio.
 — Photograph: Max Massey/KSAT 12/Reuters.


Police block the roads surrounding the church in Sutherland Springs. The motive of the gunman is not immediately known. — Photograph: Suzanne Cordeiro/Agence France-Presse/Getty Images.
Police block the roads surrounding the church in Sutherland Springs. The motive of the gunman is not immediately known.
 — Photograph: Suzanne Cordeiro/Agence France-Presse/Getty Images.


Federal authorities, including from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and the FBI, were on the scene. The Texas Ranger Division of the state's Department of Public Safety also is involved in the investigation.

The shooting on Sunday came more than a month after a masked gunman stormed into a small community church outside of Nashville and shot seven people, including the pastor, killing one. Authorities said the suspect in that shooting, Emanuel Kidega Samson, might have been motivated by a quest for revenge for a 2015 shooting that targeted black churchgoers in Charleston, South Carolina — a shooting that left nine people dead.

It also came just more than a month after 58 people were killed at a Las Vegas country music festival, in what was the deadliest mass shooting in recent U.S. history; the assailant, Stephen Paddock, killed himself after a lengthy shooting spree from his 32nd floor Mandalay Bay hotel suite.

Few details were immediately available about Kelley, and attempts to reach his family were unsuccessful on Sunday. Kelley had at one point been in the military, enlisting in 2010 and serving as a logistical readiness airman stationed at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, according to Air Force spokeswoman Ann Stefanek.

He was court-martialed in 2012 and sentenced to a year in military prison for assaulting his spouse and child, she said. He was reduced in rank and released with a bad conduct discharge in 2014.

It was unclear on Sunday how Kelley obtained the weapon he used or why he targeted the church. Neighbors said the gunshots they heard were thundering.

Diana Segura, 69, was in the shower on Sunday morning at about 11 a.m. when she was startled by a series of bangs so loud she thought a truck's engine had exploded on the highway behind her home. Minutes later, sirens burst onto her quiet street and Segura walked outside and saw the unthinkable: multiple bodies on the ground outside the First Baptist Church, where she occasionally attends weeknight services. Standing outside her home down the street from the church, Segura stared at the throng of police cars and emergency vehicles, her head shaking in disbelief.

“This is a small town and nothing never happens here,” Segura said. “We are family here, and that church is always filled with friends.”


Texas Governor Greg Abbott gives an update during a news conference at the Stockdale Community Center following the shooting. — Photograph: Sergio Flores/Reuters.
Texas Governor Greg Abbott gives an update during a news conference at the Stockdale Community Center following the shooting.
 — Photograph: Sergio Flores/Reuters.


Flags are lowered to half staff outside the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas. — Photograph: Larry W. Smith/EPA/Agencia-EFE.
Flags are lowered to half staff outside the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas. — Photograph: Larry W. Smith/EPA/Agencia-EFE.

Frank Pomeroy, the pastor of First Baptist Church, told ABC News that he was not present during the church service but that his teenage daughter, Annabelle Pomeroy, 14, was among the dead.

“She was very quiet, shy, always smiling, and helpful to all,” Cynthia Rangel, 50, a resident of Stockdale, said of Annabelle Pomeroy. Rangel, a local emergency medical technician, said she knew three individuals who were hospitalized after the shooting and were undergoing surgery. “This just all seems like it's not real.”

Dana Fletcher, who owns a business a quarter of a mile from the church, said she and her family just moved to Sutherland Springs. She said she was first alerted of the shooting after receiving a call from a reporter.

“My husband and I both are still in shock,” she said. “It's a little tiny church that was targeted. It's shocking. It's a bit frightening because it's a little bit close to home.”

President Trump addressed the shooting while traveling in Asia on Sunday, sending his thoughts and prayers to the victims and families.

“This act of evil occurred as the victims and their families were in their place of sacred worship,” Trump said. “We cannot put into words the pain and grief we all feel and we cannot begin to imagine the suffering of those who lost the ones they so dearly loved. Our hearts are broken but in dark times, and these are dark times, such as these, American do what they do best — we pull together. We join hands, we lock arms and through the tears and through the sadness we stand strong, oh so strong.”




Carrie Matula, who works at a gas station near the church, told MSNBC that she ran out to see what was happening after hearing gunshots.

“I never thought it would happen here,” she said. “This is something that happens in a big city. I would have never thought this would have taken place here. It's just too tight a community. It doesn't make sense.”

The church is a part of the Southern Baptist Convention, the largest Protestant denomination in the country with about 15 million members. First Baptist reported an average estimated attendance of 100 in 2015. The church is affiliated with the Southern Baptists of Texas Convention, considered one of Texas's more theologically conservative group of Southern Baptists.

Kathy Forton, 65, who has lived much of her life in the rural area of Wilson County, said the town has suffered an economic downturn since the county seat was moved to Floresville after a fire many years ago.

“The church helped out in so many ways, ” Forton said. “Just the most precious loving people. The people from the church used their own money to provide turkeys for the community at Thanksgiving, and presents for kids at Christmas. The loss of these people is going to devastate that community.”


Peter Holley and Eva Ruth Moravec Moravec reported from Sutherland Springs, Texas; Kristine Phillips and Wesley Lowery reported from Washington. Mary Lee Grace in San Antonio; and Sarah Pulliam Bailey, Ed O'Keefe, Alex Horton and Devlin Barrett in Washington contributed to this report.

• Peter Holley is a technology reporter at The Washington Post.

• Eva Ruth Moravec is a freelance reporter who writes about officer-involved shootings of unarmed individuals in Texas for a grant-funded series published in several Texas newspapers. She is also currently pursuing her Master's degree in Journalism at the University of Texas at Austin. Moravec covered the 2015 Texas legislative session for the Associated Press and has freelanced for local, state and national news outlets, including The New York Times and The Washington Post. Previously, Moravec worked for several years as a staff reporter covering public safety and later government for the San Antonio Express-News.

• Kristine Phillips is a general assignment reporter for The Washington Post.

• Wesley Lowery is a national reporter covering law enforcement and justice for The Washington Post. He previously covered Congress and national politics.

__________________________________________________________________________

Related to this topic:

 • VIDEO: Multiple deaths in Texas church shooting

 • VIDEO: At least 26 killed in shooting at South Texas church

 • Man linked to Texas shooting faced military court martial

 • PHOTOGRAPH GALLERY: Photos of the scene after a shooting in a Texas church


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/11/05/reports-multiple-people-shot-at-texas-church
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« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2017, 06:37:59 pm »

Since lefties seem hellbent on creating a race war, please tell us per capita, which races do more murdering in the USA? I'm pretty sure it's not (contrary to the loony left narrative) "white" men.
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« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2017, 08:48:45 pm »


Yeah, well considering the fact that WHITIE dragged those darkies to America against their will, then enslaved them and brutalised them, it's not surprising those darkies sometimes tend to be brutal themselves. They had it beaten into them by the WHITE folks who enslaved them, raped their daughters and sisters, then turned all nasty when they weren't allowed to keep them as possessions to brutalise any more, so created entities like the KKK to further brutalise them. “Reap what you sow” would be a good way of looking at it.

However, when it comes to the BIG mass-shootings which are so huge that they result in headlines all over the world, the vas majority of the shooters are WHITE men. A large proportion of those violent WHITE men are christians; and those who aren't religious were often indoctrinated with christian bullshit when they were younger, before they walked away from all that christian brainwashing; however it must have affected them long-term, don't you think?

Now go and stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes tightly, and bury your head in the sand lest you see any TRUTHS which disturb your closed-up, selfish mind.
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« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2017, 11:05:05 am »

Nobody has been "dragged " anywhere for generations so bringing up the distant past is simply another mentally deficient lefty tactic to distract from the facts as we face them currently.
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« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2017, 11:12:07 am »

So innocent white people assaulted or killed by feral non-white criminals deserve it do they? You are suffering from the brain wasting disease called leftism.
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