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Greens....yes ....they really are stupid


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Donald
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« on: October 01, 2017, 02:35:41 pm »


...well ya can't accuse them of being pragmatic😳

Green refusal to work with National 'pathetic' - Bolger

The Green Party has a responsibility to negotiate with National if it wants to clean up New Zealand's environment, former National Prime Minister Jim Bolger says.

The party's reluctance to consider a blue-green coalition because it could go the way of the Maori Party was "pathetic", Bolger told TVNZ's Q + A today.

Green Party leader James Shaw has not ruled out talking to National about forming a Government, but has said that his party campaigned on changing the government and many of National's policies were "incongruous" with Green values.

Senior National ministers, meanwhile, have floated the idea of a National-Green coalition as an alternative to forming a Government with New Zealand First.

Bolger, who negotiated a National-NZ First coalition in 1996, said the Green Party had "exactly the same capacity" as NZ First to influence the outcome of the election.

"What I'm really hoping is that the Green Party will step up and accept that opportunity, or I would term it responsibility.

"If they're in the political mix and campaigned to have an influence on the Government, then they should as another small party talk to both sides."

The concern among some Greens that the party could lose its identity and crumble like the Maori Party or National's other support partners was a "pathetic argument", Bolger said.

"Why are you there if you are not going to go into government and do something? Why are you parading up and down the country about your ambitions and your goals and your hopes and aspirations, and then say ... we won't go into government? So we'll just be a talk-shop, we'll just prattle on and do nothing about it.

"So you have to go into government if you're going to influence the outcomes."

Bolger cited the German election - which took place the day after the New Zealand general election - and said there was no doubt that the German Greens could go into government with Angela Merkel's centre-right party. New Zealand's Greens, however, have previously pointed out that Merkel's party has a much stronger environmental record than the National Party.

National's deputy leader Paula Bennett floated the idea of a National-Green Government on Friday, saying her relationship with the Greens was "great" because of her work on climate change. Other senior ministers also spoke positively about the Greens during the election campaign.

Bolger said negotiating with the Greens might not necessarily be easier than with NZ First, and could be "quite tense".

"But the broad parameters of what the Greens are arguing for ... is climate change, well, New Zealand has signed up to the Paris Accord on that. Can we go faster? Well let's discuss that. Should we enshrine something in legislation? Again, that's an open discussion. People want clean waterways and rivers, well, New Zealand farmers with no thanks or money from anybody else have built a fence from here to New York to fence off the waterways of New Zealand. Is there more than can be done? Always."

Most people advocating a National-Green coalition come from outside the Green Party.

But former Green co-leader Nandor Tanczos said yesterday that it should be an option in future elections, if not this one.

In a blog post, he said that forming a government with National this year would be "both impossible in practical terms and politically suicidal".

It would be a huge betrayal to go with National because Green voters supported the party on the understanding this would not occur, he said. Furthermore, any coalition deal needed to be approved by 75 per cent of Green members, which made it near-impossible.

However, Tanczos said the Greens "must be prepared to seriously consider the idea" of a coalition with National at some stage.

"If Greens cannot carve out a constituency beyond the 'left of Labour' cul de sac we are in, we will continue to play out the dynamic of this election over and over, soaring in the polls only as long as Labour is doing badly, but dropping back to 5 per cent as soon as Labour turns left again. Or finds a charismatic leader.

"We may be mighty in opposition, but we will always be puny in coalition until we stop relying on discontented Labour voters for support."
Herald
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aDjUsToR
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« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2017, 07:46:40 pm »

Working with the greens would be like working with any extreme religious cult. Why bother.
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Donald
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« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2017, 07:55:32 pm »

Yeah...it just seems so naive to not even make Peter's think that the Greens are competition..they could achieve a lot more..and come across as being half competent......certainly not smart enough to run a country, but in a couple of weeks they could be doing just that
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Donald
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« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2017, 09:49:43 am »

....looks like the only smart greens have left the party🙄
.....jeezzz...it ain't rocket science😉


Former Green MP Nandor Tanczos says the Greens should have a chat with National, what have they got to lose

Pressure is mounting on the Green party. Former MP Nandor Tanczos has blogged about the Greens needing to at least have a chat with National:

n order to build a more robust support base and grow the vote for a progressive government, the Greens need to stop trying to poach Labour voters and identify new constituencies. There are around 450,000 small businesses in Aotearoa employing 5 people or less. Self employment speaks to core Green ideals of supporting local economies, building self-reliance and personal autonomy, helping people lift themselves out of poverty and fostering stronger linkages between businesses and the social ecological communities in which they are located. I know a great many small business owners who support the ideals of the Greens but who don’t connect with us a party because we are not speaking to them.

There are actually lots of Greens who are small business owners – probably a disproportionate number compared to either National or Labour. Both National and Labour tend to focus on large corporate bureaucracies and play little attention to how their policies impact on small businesses – who as we know are New Zealand’s biggest employer. For years the Greens put loads of effort into trying to woo the unions. It would be worth putting the same effort into understanding how to support a sustainable, resilient and regenerative business ecology. Certainly no one else is doing much in that space.

Escaping our ‘left of Labour’ trap is not about ‘moving to the centre’. The very notion of a centre sitting half-way between Labour and National is irrelevant when we locate ourself on a triangle. Neither is it about ‘abandoning our principles’. Rather it is about embodying them in their entirety. What they cannot mean, though, is relegating ourselves to the periphery of power just because we are committed to giving Labour a free run.


I expect that Labour will always be a preferred coalition partner for the Greens. We share more values with them than we do with National. And I think it will be a while before the Greens are self confident enough to even find out what might be on the table in a coalition discussion with National. Maybe what is on the table would never be enough, but I think that just asking could make all the difference.

A chat costs nothing…but it sends a signal to Labour not to take them for granted.

You can be sure Labour will take them for granted though if The Greens insist on only contemplating aligning with Labour. Winston knows he can demand and that Labour will accede to those demands that the Greens get nothing.

By talking with National the Greens are saying to Labour, take us for granted and see where that gets you.

The only issue seems to be that James Shaw and the rest of the Greens lack the courage to actually even talk.

 

-Nandor Tanczos
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aDjUsToR
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« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2017, 11:46:00 am »

Listening to John Campbell, the Greens view National as being "full of it" and it would be a complete betrayal of their base to do deals with them. Listening to what they have to say never hurts though.
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Kiwithrottlejockey
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« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2017, 01:56:16 pm »


Why should the GREENS talk to the Nats?

Let the Nats talk to Winston.

If they don't like it, then the Nats are free to REFUSE to talk to Winston.

The GREENS are under no obligation whatsoever to dig the Nats out of the hole they are in.

Personally, I hope Winston tells the Nats he will support them on confidence and supply, allowing the Nats to remain the government, but that NZ First will sit on the cross-benches, forcing the Nats to beg for support for every piece of legislation they wish to pass through Parliament. Make the Nats grovel for the next three years, or until they decide they've had enough of that and pull the plug on themselves as government.
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If you aren't living life on the edge, you're taking up too much space! 
Donald
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« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2017, 03:28:01 pm »

Ktj...."Why should the GREENS talk to the Nats?


.... ahhhh...perhaps to have some sort of input on policy...the reason they go into politics to do...allegedly😉

...after having fraudulently ripped off the taxpayer of course...

...then stick their head into the trough...🙄

...how many years they been there?...and how many of those years have they spent as part of a govt...making policy?
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Kiwithrottlejockey
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« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2017, 03:58:57 pm »


The GREENs managed to get it made illegal for people to assault their kids.

That was one of the biggest social changes in NZ ever.

Even John Key saw the light and voted for Sue Bradford's bill.

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If you aren't living life on the edge, you're taking up too much space! 
Donald
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« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2017, 04:22:40 pm »

Ktj....."The GREENs managed to get it made illegal for people to assault their kids"

..oh......is that why we lead the world in baby murder🙄
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