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Why Americans are too “stupid” to be allowed access to guns


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Author Topic: Why Americans are too “stupid” to be allowed access to guns  (Read 432 times)
Kiwithrottlejockey
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« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2019, 09:51:32 pm »


Click on this excellent cartoon from David Horsey to read what it is about…



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« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2019, 09:37:10 am »

its about left wing hate
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« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2019, 02:25:45 pm »


It's about stupid country-hick Sheriffs refusing to uphold the law.

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« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2019, 05:43:42 pm »


from the print edition of the Los Angeles Times…

A house full of firepower

In a Bel-Air mansion with ties to the Gettys, federal and local authorities discover a hoarder's paradise of weapons.

By HANNAH FRY, SONJA SHARP, RICHARD WINTON and MARIA L. LA GANGA | Friday, May 10, 2019

Investigators from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and the LAPD inspect a cache of weapons seized from a Bel-Air mansion. The sheer number of guns unnerved neighbors. — Photograph: KCBS/KCAL.
Investigators from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and the LAPD inspect a cache of weapons seized from a Bel-Air mansion.
The sheer number of guns unnerved neighbors. — Photograph: KCBS/KCAL.


THE SCENE was straight out of a B movie: Run-down mansion. Tony neighborhood. Anonymous tip. The whiff of celebrity. And a jaw-droppingly large cache of weapons, some of questionable legality.

Investigators with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives descended on the tatty Bel-Air mansion along with members of the Los Angeles Police Department in the early morning darkness.

What they found there on Wednesday was both lethal and perplexing. The sprawling white clapboard house — two stories, five bedrooms, hidden behind a discolored gate and a tall hedge — was in complete disarray. Guns were everywhere in what authorities described as a hoarder's paradise in the 100 block of North Beverly Glen.

There were AR-15 military-style automatic rifles, what appeared to be a World War II-era Thompson submachine gun, .44-caliber handguns, .357 magnum revolvers, long guns with intricately carved stocks, an Uzi 9-millimeter submachine gun — complete with silencer — and a 9-millimeter Luger pistol.

More than 1,000 firearms in all. It would take 30 law enforcement personnel more than a dozen hours to clear the house and remove the weapons, along with gun parts and boxes of ammunition. The weapons were arrayed in long lines on white blankets on the property’s winding driveway on Wednesday, a jumble of metal and wood.

Once authorities cataloged the stockpile, the guns were loaded into a large box truck and driven off the property. The weapons will be booked into evidence, said Lieutenant Chris Ramirez, an LAPD spokesman.

“This is a big stash,” Ramirez told reporters at the scene. “It's beyond comprehension that somebody can have so many weapons in a residence like this, in a neighborhood like this.”

That somebody is alleged to be 57-year-old Girard Saenz, who was inside the home at the time of the raid. He was arrested on suspicion of violating California's law regarding assault weapons and .50-caliber Browning machine guns. The law prohibits the manufacture, distribution, transportation, importation and sale of such guns except in specific circumstances.

As authorities investigated on Wednesday evening, vans rumbled by full of tourists headed to see the nearby Playboy Mansion and other homes owned by wealthy Los Angeles A-listers. Jay-Z and Beyoncé live in a mansion less than a mile from the scene.

But Saenz — who authorities allege was selling weapons from the Bel-Air home — has a much stronger connection to the rich and famous than simply living near the hip-hop power couple.

He was identified in court records as the long-time companion of Los Angeles real estate mogul Cynthia Beck. Public records show the Bel-Air property is owned by Beck, who has three daughters with J. Paul Getty's son Gordon Getty. Getty is an heir to the Getty Oil fortune and an international patron of the arts.


It took 30 law enforcement personnel more than 12 hours to clear the house and remove the weapons, along with gun parts and ammunition. — Photograph: Los Angeles Police Department.
It took 30 law enforcement personnel more than 12 hours to clear the house and remove the weapons, along with gun parts and ammunition.
 — Photograph: Los Angeles Police Department.


Beck was thrust into the spotlight in 1999, when the girls filed a petition in Los Angeles Superior Court to change their surname from Beck to the far more glamorous Getty. At the time, there also were negotiations over the possibility of future inheritance.

Getty, who had a wife and four grown sons in San Francisco, publicly acknowledged his double life, which had been an open secret in certain glitzy Bay Area circles. Tongues wagged.

As one local columnist cracked at the time: “If only San Francisco's high society had been hired to guard the United States' nuclear weapons secrets, the ones that have steadily leaked out to the Chinese.”

Getty also was a father figure, business partner and political donor to none other than Governor Gavin Newsom, who, as a teenager, went on an African safari with the oil scion and his wife, Ann.

Beck bought the house in January 2001, but it remains unclear what, if any, connection she has to Wednesday's events or if she lives at the home. In more recent years, she has accumulated a trove of property in Los Angeles and San Francisco, some of which she owns with Saenz, according to public records.

She could not be reached for comment on Thursday.

Authorities launched their investigation into the weapons cache after they received an anonymous tip that someone was manufacturing and selling guns at the home.

The ATF said in a statement that its agents searched the house after discovering Saenz was illegally selling firearms outside the scope of the federal license he possesses. Law enforcement has not specified how Saenz was allegedly selling the weapons.

Saenz posted a $50,000 bond and was released from custody shortly after 9 a.m. on Thursday. He could not be reached for comment.

He has been a licensed general building contractor since 1994 and operates a business that he started in the early 1990s in San Diego called Gerry Saenz and Associates, according to public records. Archives from a local newspaper in Coronado from 1993 note that the business specialized in architectural environmental lighting and landscape design.

Saenz was arrested at a Malibu home in September 2017 on suspicion of brandishing a firearm. But those involved told deputies they did not want to pursue the matter, according to a Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department spokesman. Saenz was released within a few hours of being detained. No charges were filed.


Girard Saenz, 57, who was inside the home at the time of the raid, was arrested on suspicion of violating California's law regarding assault weapons. — Photograph: Allen J. Schaben/Los Angeles Times.
Girard Saenz, 57, who was inside the home at the time of the raid, was arrested on suspicion of violating California's law regarding assault weapons.
 — Photograph: Allen J. Schaben/Los Angeles Times.


Saenz's current business address is a property on North Bunker Hill Avenue in Los Angeles that he owns with Beck. The home was one of several locations that were searched by authorities on Wednesday, law enforcement sources not authorized to speak publicly told the Los Angeles Times.

Public records indicate Saenz lived in the San Diego area with his ex-wife in the early 1990s and eventually moved to Los Angeles.

Neighbors say the home where he was arrested is normally quiet.

“I was talking to my neighbors — nobody knows who he is,” said resident Nicole DiGiorgio, a Queens native who is among the few pedestrians to brave the sidewalk-less streets in the neighborhood. “I walk up and down here all the time, I never see anyone come in or out.”

On Thursday, Bel-Air bustled with housekeepers, gardeners and maintenance staff tending to the clay tennis courts and tangled private jungles that dot the enclave. Drivers slowed as they passed the Beverly Glen home to snap photos to show their friends on FaceTime.

Experts say it's not illegal for someone to possess a massive cache of weapons. But the person must comply with state and federal laws regarding firearms, said Steve Cooley, a former L.A. County district attorney.

Still, the amount of firepower stored in the house unnerved some neighbors.

“It's scary, because you think it's a safe place, especially this area,” said Christian Aleman, a carpenter who parks across the street from the home and walks to a nearby job site. He said he never saw anyone come or go from the house, but he worried for the children who played at a park down the street.

“There's a lot of kids playing in this park,” Aleman said. “Always, all the time, right across from this house.”


__________________________________________________________________________

Los Angeles Times staff writers Alejandra Reyes-Velarde, Jaclyn Cosgrove and Alexa Díaz contributed to this report.

• Hannah Fry is a Metro reporter for the Los Angeles Times covering breaking news in California. She joined Times Community News in Orange County in 2013 where she covered education, Newport Beach city hall, crime and courts. She is a native of Orange County and attended Chapman University, where she was the editor-in-chief of the college newspaper, the Panther.

• Sonja Sharp covers the Westside for the Los Angeles Times. Before joining the newsrooom in 2019, she worked as an NYPD-credentialed member of the New York City press corps, writing stranger-than-fiction stories of crime and culture for VICE, The Wall Street Journal and the Village Voice, among others. She is a Bay Area native, a graduate of UC Berkeley and Columbia, and a proud Jewish mother.

• Richard Winton is a crime writer for the Los Angeles Times and part of the team that won the Pulitzer Prize for Public Service in 2011. Known as @lacrimes on Twitter, during 20 years at the L.A. Times he also has been part of the breaking news staff that won Pulitzers in 1998 and 2004. He won the ASNE Deadline News award in 2006. A native of England, after getting degrees from University of Kent at Canterbury and University of Wisconsin-Madison, he began covering politics but chose a life of crime because it was less dirty.

• Maria L. La Ganga is a Metro reporter for the Los Angeles Times. She joined the L.A. Times in 1981 as an academic intern, splitting her time between the former Metro section and National Dragster, the official publication of the National Hot Rod Association. She has served as Seattle bureau chief, San Francisco bureau chief, edited in the Business section and pitched in on six presidential elections, five for the L.A. Times and one for The Guardian. La Ganga left the Los Angeles Times in 2015 and returned in 2018 after a brief hiatus during which she wrote for The Guardian and the Idaho Statesman.

https://enewspaper.latimes.com/infinity/article_share.aspx?guid=576a80fc-197c-4169-86e1-7703b83f8636
https://enewspaper.latimes.com/infinity/article_share.aspx?guid=93a9ff91-c0ae-4d81-9128-afe08ba3c987
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« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2019, 08:03:25 pm »

gee he really loved his guns Grin
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« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2019, 12:46:57 am »


from The Washington Post…

More Americans were shot to death by March 6 this year than died on D-Day



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« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2019, 03:14:37 am »

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« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2019, 08:37:14 pm »




(definitely worth clicking-on, then scroll-down and start reading)
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« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2019, 10:13:19 pm »


And yet another mass shooting in America today carried out by a WHITE TRASH RIGHTIE.

The latest is in Dayton, Ohio.

White-trash rightie Americans should be drowned at birth.

They are scum & Trump-supporting vermin who don't deserve to be allowed to share the planet with the rest of us.
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« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2019, 01:46:50 pm »

better get your facts correct

The latest is in Dayton, Ohio carried out by a WHITE TRASH LEFTIE

White-trash leftie Americans and all leftie scum worldwide should all be drowned at birth

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ellievhall/dayton-shooter-pornogrind-band
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« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2019, 01:53:25 pm »


from The Seattle Times…

American exceptionalism

Republicans are in denial about the mortal danger of assault weapons.

By DAVID HORSEY | 2:09PM PDT — Thursday, August 08, 2019



THE MASS SHOOTINGS are coming so fast and furious this year that it is hard to take a deep breath before the next tragedy occurs. This is useful for Republicans who continue to insist that the days immediately after a shooting are the wrong time to “politicize” the horror by opening a debate on gun violence. Effectively, that means there is never a right time for that debate.

When they do address the issue, Republicans often act as if it is a great mystery why so many Americans are getting killed in these terror attacks while there is no equivalent carnage in other developed countries. After the killings last weekend in El Paso, Texas, Senator John Cornyn tweeted, “Sadly, there are some issues, like homelessness and these shootings, where we simply don't have all the answers.”

Actually, we do have some answers. To the question of whether mental health is a prime driver in the problem, research shows it is a contributing factor in only some cases, but far from all. To the question of whether we can blame it all on violent video games, the answer is no. Perpetrators of these massacres are no more likely to play video games than anyone else. Nevertheless, GOP leaders, from President Donald Trump on down, continue to yammer on about mental health and video games.

The topic they avoid is assault weapons. The ready availability of weapons of war is the one factor that is unique to the United States.  For those who think it is still a mystery why we are the only advanced nation with a plague of mass killings, that is where the obvious answer lies.


__________________________________________________________________________

• See more of David Horsey's cartoons at The Seattle Times HERE.

https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/american-exceptionalism
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« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2019, 04:19:48 am »

This must be the reason for your Trump Derangement Syndrome mental illness  I hope they keep you away from guns  Roll Eyes

Antidepressants linked to murders and murderous thoughts




Antidepressants have been linked to 28 reports of murder and 32 cases of murderous thoughts, in cases referred to the UK medicines regulator over the past 30 years, a BBC investigation has discovered.

The pills, known as Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRIs) which includes common drugs like Prozac and Seroxat, are prescribed 40 million times each year in Britain.

But an Freedom of Information request for BBC Panorama discovered that the Medicines & Healthcare products Regulatory Agency had received 60 reports of murders or murderous thoughts linked to the drugs in the past three decades.

Professor Peter Tyrer, a psychiatrist at Imperial College London, has been assessing the performance of SSRIs since they were first introduced in the 1980s.

Although the link between murders and antidepressants in cases referred to the MHRA do not mean the drugs caused the events, Prof Tyrer told programme-makers that the extreme side effects of the drugs should be investigated further.

“You can never be quite certain with a rare side-effect whether it’s linked to a drug or not because it could be related to other things,” he said.

“But it’s happened just too frequently with this class of drug to make it random. It’s obviously related to the drug but we don’t know exactly why.”


Antidepressants were prescribed 40 million times last year in Britain

The programme also looked into claims that the Batman movie killer James Holmes, who killed 12 people at a midnight premier cinema screening at Colorado in 2012, was taking the SSRIs sertraline at the time of the murders.

Analysing Holmes' notebooks and psychiatric interviews with him carried out after the killings, the programme found that he appeared to lose his fear of consequences as the drugs removed his anxiety.

And as the dose of sertraline was increased, the programme shows his obsessive thoughts became psychotic.

UK-based psychiatrist Professor David Healy, who was an adviser to Holmes’s defence team and interviewed Holmes while he was awaiting trial, told Panorama: “I believe if he hadn’t taken the sertraline he wouldn’t have murdered anyone.”

However court psychiatrist Dr William Reid who also interviewed Holmes before the trial, told the programme makers that he thought the killings were a result of mental illness and "completely unrelated to the medication."


Experts claim the drugs may remove inhibitions about killings  CREDIT: INCAMERASTOCK / ALAMY STOCK PHOTO

Prosecuting Attorney George Brauchler told Panorama: “I don’t think the medications caused these shootings, I think this guy with his evil thoughts, having concluded that he had no other alternative future, with the mental illness, led to this, that’s what I think did it.”

The role of the drugs was not explored in court, and the defence team did not call on Professor Healy to give evidence.

Holmes was found guilty of all charges and is serving one of America’s longest ever prison sentences.

Professor Tyrer is calling on the courts to take into account the possible effects of SSRIs in cases where people taking the drugs commit violent crime:

"Although it makes the whole process a bit more complicated, I think that is going to become necessary in the future."

Drugs manufacturer Pfizer who developed sertraline said a causal link between setraline and homicidal behaviour has not been established, and that the drug has helped millions of people.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/07/25/antidepressants-linked-murders-murderous-thoughts/


« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 04:25:25 am by Im2Sexy4MyPants » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2019, 12:42:20 pm »


IDIOT DUMBFUCK......GUNS are the problem.





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« Reply #38 on: August 10, 2019, 02:22:16 pm »

No dumb arse its people like you that are the problem mad insane white trash demons like you

never heard of a gun shooting someone by itself

guns, not the problem
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« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2019, 06:23:26 pm »


Notice how 99% of mass-shooting murderers are both white and Trump-supporters?

Kinda says a lot about white-trash Trump-supporters, eh?

They obviously need to be exterminated for the good of mankind.
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« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2019, 10:17:18 pm »


President Franklin D. Roosevelt knew how to deal to white-trash with guns.



from The Washington Post…

They were killers with submachine guns.
Then the president went after their weapons.


Franklin D. Roosevelt's National Firearms Act of 1934 was aimed at
John Dillinger, Bonnie and Clyde, and other murderous gangsters.


By RONALD G. SHAFER | 10:58AM EDT — Friday, August 09, 2019

Booking shots show John Dillinger, then 21, in 1924. He became one of the most notorious gangsters of the 1930s. — Photograph: Charlie Nye/Indianapolis Star/Associated Press.
Booking shots show John Dillinger, then 21, in 1924. He became one of the most notorious gangsters of the 1930s.
 — Photograph: Charlie Nye/Indianapolis Star/Associated Press.


THEY WERE the mass shooters of their day, and all of America knew their names: John “the Killer” Dillinger, Arthur “Pretty Boy” Floyd, Bonnie and Clyde, George “Machine Gun” Kelly.

In the 1930s, the violence by the notorious gangsters was fueled by Thompson submachine guns, or Tommy guns, that fired up to 600 rounds of bullets in a minute. In response, President Franklin D. Roosevelt was pressing Congress to act on his “New Deal for Crime,” specifically a bill officially called the National Firearms Act of 1934. Informally, it was known as the “Anti-Machine Gun Bill.”

At the time, “Pretty Boy” Floyd was on a killing spree. Clyde Barrow and his girlfriend, Bonnie Parker, were blazing a bloody path through Oklahoma with submachine guns and sawed-off shotguns. “Machine Gun” Kelly had recently been captured and sent to Leavenworth prison.

Dillinger, “with a submachine gun in his hands and a big green sedan awaiting him, shot his way out of a police trap today and once more foiled the law,” the Associated Press reported from St. Paul, Minnesota, in the spring of 1934.

The next week in Wisconsin, Dillinger killed a federal law enforcement officer in a hail of submachine gun bullets.

Roosevelt's firearms bill also proposed requiring newly purchased pistols and revolvers to be registered and owners to be fingerprinted. In February 1933 in Miami, a would-be assassin had fired a pistol at President-elect Roosevelt and then killed visiting Chicago Mayor Anton Cermak.

The gun-control effort foreshadowed the current debate over assault rifles, the weapons used last weekend in mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio. President Trump said on Friday he is seeking stronger background checks for gun purchases, but also acknowledged that he has been speaking to the National Rifle Association about any new restrictions. Earlier in the week, he said he sees “no political appetite” for banning assault rifles. The NRA and gun rights advocates argue that such a ban would violate the Second Amendment, guaranteeing the right to bear arms.


A 1934 photo of John Dillinger wielding his weapons near Moore, Indiana. — Photograph: Associated Press.
A 1934 photo of John Dillinger wielding his weapons
near Moore, Indiana. — Photograph: Associated Press.


In 1934, more than two dozen states passed gun-control laws. West Virginia required gun owners to be bonded and licensed. Michigan mandated that the police approve gun buyers. Texas banned machine guns.

“Why should desperadoes, brazen outlaws of the period be permitted to purchase these weapons of destruction?” the Waco News-Tribune editorialized.

Rather than a federal ban on machine guns, the Roosevelt administration proposed taxing the high-powered weapons virtually out of existence. It would place a $200 tax on the purchase of machine guns and sawed-off shotguns. The tax — equal to about $3,800 today — was steep at a time when the average annual income was about $1,780.

“A machine gun, of course, ought never to be in the hands of any private individual,” Attorney General Homer Cummings said at a House hearing. “There is not the slightest excuse for it, not the least in the world, and we must, if we are going to be successful in this effort to suppress crime in America, take these machine guns out of the hands of the criminal class.”

Nobody expected “the underworld to be going around giving their fingerprints and getting permits to carry these weapons,” Cummings said. But if they were caught with a gun that wasn't registered, they could be charged with tax evasion, just as Chicago mobster Al Capone had been. “I want to be in a position, when I find such a person, to convict him because he has not complied,” the attorney general said.

While the proposed action might seem drastic, he added, “I think the sooner we get to the point where we are prepared to recognize the fact that the possession of deadly weapons must be regulated and checked, the better off we are going to be as a people.”

The NRA gave qualified support to the proposed law.

“I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses,” testified NRA President Karl Frederick, a New York lawyer. But he was dubious about the proposed law. “In my opinion, the useful results that can be accomplished by firearms legislation are extremely limited,” he said. The NRA at the time represented “hundreds of thousands” of gun owners but not gun manufacturers.

The NRA and groups representing hunters opposed extending the tax to pistols and revolvers. “It is a fact which cannot be refuted that a pistol or revolver in the hands of a man or woman who knows how to use it is one thing which makes the smallest man or the weakest woman the equal of the burliest thug,” argued Milton Reckord, the NRA's executive vice president. But as for a bill limited to machine guns and sawed-off shotguns, he said, “We will go along with such a bill as that.”


An undated photo of bandits Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow. — Photograph: Associated Press.
An undated photo of bandits Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow. — Photograph: Associated Press.

Congress eventually stripped the bill of regulations on pistols and revolvers. When Democratic Representative Lee Doughton of North Carolina introduced the final bill, he declared that the law would mean that the public no longer would be at the “mercy of the gangsters, racketeers and professional criminals.” But “law-abiding citizens who feel that a pistol or a revolver is essential in his home for the protection of himself and his family,” he said, “should not be compelled to register his firearms and have his fingerprints taken and placed in the same the same class with gangsters, racketeers, and those who are known as criminals.”

Congress passed the firearms act in June, and Roosevelt signed it into law along with more than 100 other bills. By 1937, federal officials reported that the sale of machine guns in the United States had practically ceased. In 1939, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that law didn't violate the Constitution.

Hundreds of illegal machine guns were still around, but a crackdown by law enforcement basically ended the run of gangster gun violence.

In May 1934 in Louisiana, a posse led by a former Texas Ranger ambushed and killed Bonnie and Clyde in a blaze of submachine gun fire. Later that year, federal agents killed Pretty Boy Floyd in a gun battle in an Ohio cornfield.

In June, the feds tracked down Dillinger at the Biograph Theater in Chicago where he watched the movie “Manhattan Melodrama” starring Clark Gable. Agents chased Dillinger into an alley, where he reached for his gun and was shot dead.

In May 1936, the Federal Bureau of Investigation nailed the last official “Public Enemy No.1,” Alvin “Creepy” Karpis, in New Orleans. Karpis gave up without a fight. Personally leading the arrest was the FBI's 41-year-old director, J. Edgar Hoover.


__________________________________________________________________________

Ronald G. Shafer is a former editor at The Wall Street Journal and the author of The Carnival Campaign: How The Rollicking 1840 Campaign of Tippecanoe and Tyler Too Changed Presidential Elections Forever.

__________________________________________________________________________

Related to this topic:

 • Trump says he is seeking ‘common-sense’ gun legislation, acknowledges he is seeking input from NRA

 • Notorious gangster John Dillinger will be exhumed from his grave. It could finally put rumors to rest.

 • Bullies and black trench coats: The Columbine shooting's most dangerous myths

 • Bonnie and Clyde were Depression-era Kardashians: A source of public fascination

 • A gunmaker once tried to reform itself. The NRA nearly destroyed it.

 • The NRA once believed in gun control and had a leader who pushed for it

 • Virginia Tech was not the worst school massacre in U.S. history. This was.

 • On this day in history, outlaw Jesse James took a bullet to the brain


https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2019/08/09/they-were-killers-with-machine-guns-then-president-went-after-their-weapons
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« Reply #41 on: August 11, 2019, 10:59:02 pm »





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« Reply #42 on: August 12, 2019, 01:39:50 am »


Trump is too stupid to be the president.

So what does that say about the inherent stupidity levels of those who voted for him?

Anyway, Hillary got 2.87 million more votes than Trump who only won because of America's corrupt electoral college system.

And Trump HATES the fact that Hillary got 2.87 million more votes than he did, because it shows that Hillary was more popular that LIAR Trump.
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« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2019, 10:15:08 am »

yes, Hillary was fun Grin

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« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2019, 02:53:58 pm »


Post all the bullshit you feel like posting.

It still doesn't change the fact that Trump got 2.87 million less votes than Hillary Clinton did.
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« Reply #45 on: August 16, 2019, 03:24:14 pm »

hahahahahahaha woof woof we came we saw he died lmao Grin
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