Xtra News Community 2
March 19, 2024, 02:27:01 pm
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Welcome to Xtra News Community 2 — please also join our XNC2-BACKUP-GROUP.
 
  Home Help Arcade Gallery Links BITEBACK! XNC2-BACKUP-GROUP Staff List Login Register  

GM fortells the end of petrol & diesel powered vehicles…

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: GM fortells the end of petrol & diesel powered vehicles…  (Read 228 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Kiwithrottlejockey
Admin Staff
XNC2 GOD
*
Posts: 32223


Having fun in the hills!


« on: October 12, 2017, 08:24:02 pm »


from The Washington Post....

Death of gas and diesel begins as GM announces
plans for ‘all-electric future’


The announcement comes on the heels of the Chevy Bolt's success.

By PETER HOLLEY | 2:53PM EDT - Monday, October 02, 2017

A Chevrolet Bolt is ringed by electric and fuel cell vehicles covered by tarps. On October 2nd, General Motors announced that it will produce two new electric models on the Bolt underpinnings in the next 18 months and 20 electric and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles by 2023. — Photograph: General Motors/Associated Press.
A Chevrolet Bolt is ringed by electric and fuel cell vehicles covered by tarps. On October 2nd, General Motors announced that it will produce
two new electric models on the Bolt underpinnings in the next 18 months and 20 electric and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles by 2023.
 — Photograph: General Motors/Associated Press.


AFTER nearly a century of building vehicles powered by fossil fuels, General Motors — one of the world's largest automakers — announced on Monday that the end of GM producing internal combustion engines is fast approaching.

The acceleration to an all-electric future will begin almost immediately, with GM releasing two new electric models next year and an additional 18 by 2023.

At a media event at GM's technical campus in Warren, Michigan, on Monday, Mark Reuss, the company's chief of global product development, said the transition will take time, but the course has been set.

“General Motors believes in an all-electric future,” Reuss said. “Although that future won't happen overnight, GM is committed to driving increased usage and acceptance of electric vehicles.”

Reuss avoided naming the year when the auto giant will cease producing gas and diesel vehicles, noting that the company is too large to make such an estimate, according to USA Today.

GM finished 2016 as the world's third-largest auto-seller, breaking previous company records with 10 million vehicles sold, the company said in a news release.

The automaker said that arriving at a “zero emissions future” will require a two-pronged approach: battery electric and hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicles.

At Monday's event, Fast Company reported, officials unveiled three concepts for reporters: “a sporty crossover, a larger wagon or SUV and a tall, boxy pod car that looked like a people-mover for cities”.

GM also introduced a fuel-cell-powered heavy-duty truck with two electric motors known as Surus, or “silent utility rover universal superstructure”.

GM's foray into the electric marketplace has already resulted in resounding success, with the Chevrolet Bolt being named Motor Trend's 2017 Car of the Year and the 2017 North American Car of the Year. The Bolt boasts a 240-mile battery range on a single charge and costs $37,500 before tax incentives. That range places the vehicle well above the Nissan Leaf (up to 107 miles on a single charge) and slightly above Tesla's Model 3 (up to 220 miles on a single charge for a standard battery).

As GM commits to electric innovation, the company will compete in an increasingly crowded marketplace. In recent months, Tesla unveiled the company's first mass market electric vehicle, joining companies such as Ford, Volvo, Nissan, Aston Martin and Jaguar Land Rover, all of whom are vying for market space.

On Monday, Ford announced plans to create a group known as “Team Edison” that is to be tasked with developing fully electric cars. Sherif Marakby, Ford's head of electrification and autonomous vehicles, told Automotive News that the company is on pace to produce 13 electrified vehicles over the next five years.

“We see an inflection point in the major markets toward battery electric vehicles,” Marakby said. “We feel it's important to have a cross-functional team all the way from defining the strategy plans and implementation to advanced marketing.”


• Peter Holley is a technology reporter at The Washington Post.

__________________________________________________________________________

Related to this topic:

 • VIDEO: Take a ride in Chevy's Bolt EV, the car that wants to take down Tesla

 • VIDEO: How to Adult: How to buy a car

 • ‘We understand what needs to be fixed’, Tesla says after missing Model 3 production goals

 • Tesla's Model 3 has ‘mass appeal’. That doesn't mean you can afford it.

 • Volvo says it will abandon traditional engines by 2019


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2017/10/02/death-of-diesel-begins-as-gm-announces-plans-for-all-electric-future
Report Spam   Logged

If you aren't living life on the edge, you're taking up too much space! 

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter

Kiwithrottlejockey
Admin Staff
XNC2 GOD
*
Posts: 32223


Having fun in the hills!


« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2017, 08:24:16 pm »


from The Washington Post....

Why 2017 will go down as the beginning of the end
of the internal combustion engine


The tipping point, experts say, follows three developments, each rippling
outward with their own economic and cultural consequences.


By PETER HOLLEY | 1:03PM EDT - Wednesday, October 11, 2017

ELECTRIC VEHICLES no longer seem like a futuristic fever dream, but they remain a rarity on most American city streets, accounting for less than 1 percent of the nation's auto sales, according to the automotive website Edmunds.com.

Yet, when future auto historians look back, they may pinpoint 2017 as the year electric vehicles went from a promising progressive fad to an industry-wide inevitability.

The tipping point, experts say, follows three developments, each rippling outward with economic and cultural consequences.


  • China's flexing: In addition to setting aggressive production quotas for EVs, China plans to scrap internal combustion engines entirely as soon as 2030. By taking a lead role in the shift to plug-ins, the world's largest auto market is forcing the rest of the international community to follow in its footsteps.

  • The debut of Tesla's Model 3: The company’s first mass-market vehicle has ushered in an era of excitement about EVs because of the car's slick design and starting price of around $35,000.

  • Major automakers announce plans for an “all-electric future”. General Motors finished 2016 as the world's third-largest automaker, meaning its decision to create 20 new electric vehicles by 2023 is bound to have an impact on the global marketplace. Volvo, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Audi, BMW and Ford have also announced EV plans in recent months.

“You really do feel like this electrification thing is suddenly very real,” Jessica Caldwell, executive director of industry analysis at Edmunds.com. “There's a momentum we haven't really seen before. It's coming from other countries around the world and from big automakers, and that’s forcing everyone else to comply.”

The all-electric future is still years away, experts say. But as EV momentum builds, we've listed five ways in which EV adoption is expected to play out:


The future of Big Oil

Not so long ago, minuscule sales of EVs made it hard for Big Oil to take the threat of electric cars seriously. Now, thanks to growing demand in Asia and Europe, experts say, that's beginning to change, even amid predictions that oil demand will continue growing in the developing world. The question facing experts is no longer whether EVs will take over, but when?

A Barclays' analysis concluded that oil demand could be slashed by 3.5 million barrels per day worldwide in 2025. If electric vehicle penetration reaches 33 percent, oil demand could shrink by a whopping 9 million barrels per day by 2040, Barclays concluded. Bloomberg's New Energy Finance puts the number at 8 million barrels by 2040, more than the “current combined production of Iran and Iraq,” they note.

Urging caution about the impact of EVs on the oil industry, John Eichberger, executive director of the Fuels Institute, said he doesn't expect to see significant changes in demand for another 15 years or so. “We don't know how fast EV sales will pick up, but what we do know is that no matter how fast they pick up, the inventory in the market will turn over more slowly, and this will delay the impact on liquid gallon demand,” he said.

Eichberger noted that even optimistic sales growth estimates conclude it will take until the 2030s for EV sales to reach as high as 16 percent of the nation's market share. Once that happens, he said, it will take even longer for people to start selling their vehicles and buying new ones, leading to widespread EV adoption.

“It's the vehicles on the road that will determine gasoline demand, not the vehicles being sold that day,” he said.


Gas stations will change or disappear

Some experts believe electric cars have sounded the death knell of the American gas station, but others aren't so sure.  Earlier this year, John Abbott, Shell Oil's business director, revealed that the energy giant is already adapting.

“We have a number of countries where we're looking at having battery charging facilities,” he told the Financial Times. “If you are sitting charging your vehicle, you will want to have a coffee or something to eat.”

Until charging times drop dramatically and superchargers become widespread, wait times for EV charging at gas stations could turn those stations into “hospitality-type venues,” according to Guido Jouret, the ABB's chief digital officer, who noted that many gas stations make more money selling soda and food than they do selling gas.

“The idea is that for hospitality-type venues — restaurants, gas stations, coffee shops — electric vehicle charging could be an attractive way for them to attract customers the way WiFi was a decade ago, when it caused a lot of people to hang out at Starbucks.”


Environmental impact

Depending on how electricity is produced in your region, plug-ins are from 30 percent to 80 percent lower in greenhouse gas emissions, according to Gina Coplon-Newfield, the director of the Sierra Club's Electric Vehicles Initiative. If GM follows through on its plan to launch a new fleet of electric vehicles, Coplon-Newfield said, the reductions in carbon emissions and the improved air quality could be “hugely beneficial.”

“We've seen customers rave about cars like the Chevy Bolt and Volt,” she said. “Right now only a few thousand a month are being sold, so GM can significantly ramp up their production, and that's going to have a significant impact on the market for consumers, the climate and public health.”

How significant?

If GM's 2016 U.S. sales — more than 3 million vehicles — were converted to EVs, the country would benefit in the following ways, according to an analysis provided by the Sierra Club:


  • 6.5 million tons, or 13 billion pounds, of GHGs reduced annually.

  • 35.6 million barrels of petroleum reduced annually, creating less of a dependency on foreign oil, further boosting demand on domestic electricity and keeping oil money spent in-state.

  • 164.5 million pounds of carbon monoxide reduced annually.

  • 11 million pounds of nitrogen oxides reduced annually, harmful to respiratory health and creates smog.

  • 1 million pounds of particulate matter reduced annually.

  • 9 million pounds of volatile organic compounds reduced annually.





The evolving future of auto mechanics

One of the primary reasons that auto owners visit a mechanic is for an oil change, which raises a question: What happens when vehicles no longer rely on oil? It’s not that electric vehicles won't require maintenance (they still have brakes, tires and windshield wipers, after all), but their engines are far simpler, experts say.

“Basically these things don't break,” Tony Seba, a clean energy expert and the founder of RethinkX, a think tank that forecasts changes in the transportation industry. “They have 20 moving parts, as opposed to 2,000 in the internal combustion engine, and even those 20 are electromagnetic, which means they don't touch and don't break down and, therefore, are far cheaper to maintain.”

Seba pointed out that there are thousands of department store and dealer repair locations — as well as about 70,000 mom-and-pop repair shops — that will be significantly affected by a decline in business.


Powering the grid

We tend to think of EVs as consumers of electricity, but some experts believe they'll be more like “mobile energy storage units,” as Forbes recently noted. Widespread adoption, experts say, may allow vehicles to transfer energy back to the grid when costs and demand are high and charge the battery when demand has waned.

The proposal would allow car owners and cities to lower costs. “Imagine it's a hot day, and you've agreed that in exchange for allowing the grid to sip a bit of your car's energy, maybe you earn points or receive a monetary benefit,” Jouret said. “The utility can sip the battery juice and take a little bit from all sources and spread it around.”


• Peter Holley is a technology reporter at The Washington Post.

__________________________________________________________________________

Related to this topic:

 • ‘We understand what needs to be fixed’, Tesla says after missing Model 3 production goals


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2017/10/11/why-2017-will-go-down-as-the-beginning-of-the-end-of-the-internal-combustion-engine



from The Washington Post....

Do automakers dream of electric cars?

The industry is precariously poised between a
glamorous past and an opaque road ahead.


By GEORGE F. WILL | 7:53PM EDT - Wednesday, October 11, 2017

DETROIT — Bending metal, slapping on chrome and marketing an empowering product and status marker that mesmerized 20th-century America, the automobile industry typified the Old Economy, of which General Motors was emblematic. As was its bankruptcy. Today, GM chief executive Mary Barra is wagering that the industry soon will be manufacturing New Economy products. They will incorporate technologies that will entice buyers whose sensibilities and expectations have been shaped by the kind of empowerment delivered by their smartphones, which arrived just 10 years ago.

GM's electric self-starter, which replaced hand cranks, was the last century's most transformative innovation. It arrived in 1912. Today, Cadillac offers hands-free driving, with advanced GPS mapping. An eye-tracking camera on the steering column monitors driver alertness, and the car nags the distracted driver back to attentiveness, which makes this technological marvel less of a convenience than the self-starter. Still, Barra is attempting an audacious balance between the demands of present consumers and radically different future demands. Or, more accurately, a future that governments, hostile to consumer sovereignty, intend to dictate.

China has announced, as have Britain and France, plans to ban, at an undetermined date, sales of vehicles powered by fossil fuels in their tanks. (Electric vehicles will be powered mostly by fossil-fuel-generated electricity.) In Shanghai in mid-September, Barra dissented: “I think it works best when, instead of mandating, customers are choosing the technology that meets their needs.” But governments, and not just dictatorships, like to dictate, and companies must accommodate: GM sells more cars in China than in the United States (it sold about 1.2 million Buicks last year, about a million of them in China, where elites drove them decades before communism arrived), and China manufactures more cars than the United States and Japan combined. As GM promises two new electric vehicles in the next 18 months, and a total of 20 by 2023, one of Barra's executives speaks of GM “driving increased usage and acceptance of electric vehicles,” but governments are at the wheel. Without subventions from Washington, Tesla's market capitalization never would have even briefly exceeded GM's.

Barra foresees a fast-unfolding future of “zero crashes” (salvation through software: Auto-crash fatality rates are rising for the first time in years, and 94 percent of crashes are caused by human error), “zero emissions” (zero from tailpipes, much from smokestacks in an all-electric future) and “zero congestion” (with more ride-hailing services and car-sharing fleets, less individual car ownership and less urban land devoted to parking lots).

Ford, too, is anticipating a future replete with electric, semi-autonomous, driverless and shared cars: Two years ago, it announced a $4.5 billion investment in electric vehicles. But to pay for this speculation (electrics are 1 percent of U.S. car sales, despite tax incentives to buy what the government prefers), Ford is diverting $7 billion from cars to vehicles for which there actually is demand — SUVs and trucks. (Its F-Series pickup has been the United States' best-selling vehicle since 1982.)

The automobile industry is precariously poised between a glamorous past and a future as opaque as it was when Henry Ford supposedly said that if he had begun by asking customers what they wanted, they would have answered, “A faster horse.” Or when the company he founded produced a car named for his son Edsel.

“This is a long-lead-time business,” says Barra, as she tries to peer over the horizon to develop products for a public that increasingly can work and shop without leaving home, and that decreasingly vacations as it was exhorted to by the theme song of “The Dinah Shore Chevy Show” (1956-63): See the U.S.A. in your Chevrolet. The torrid romance that was America's car culture has cooled (the percentage of 12th-graders with a driver's license has declined from 88 to 73 since 1978), the sedan (Chevrolet's Impala has been around since 1958) is an endangered species, and car companies are preparing for a future in which the crucial metric is not the number of vehicles sold to consumers but the number of miles traveled by consumers.

Barra, 55, whose father was a die-maker for Pontiac for 39 years, remembers when auto dealers covered their showroom windows with paper to build excitement for the first glimpses of new models. She is banking on a more sophisticated kind of excitement for smartcars. They will be designed for customers who in 2006 did not know that soon they would not be able to imagine living without the smartphones that in 2006 they could not imagine.


• George F. Will writes a twice-weekly column on politics and domestic and foreign affairs for The Washington Post. He began his column with The Post in 1974, and he received the Pulitzer Prize for Commentary in 1977.

__________________________________________________________________________

Related to this topic:

 • Charles Lane: The government has spent a lot on electric cars, but was it worth it?


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/do-automakers-dream-of-electric-cars/2017/10/11/112ab212-ade6-11e7-be94-fabb0f1e9ffb_story.html
Report Spam   Logged

If you aren't living life on the edge, you're taking up too much space! 
aDjUsToR
Part-Of-The-Furniture Member
*
Posts: 882


« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2017, 09:42:24 am »

Wake me when I can buy a new electric car with all the capability of say a Mazda 2 for the same price as a Mazda 2. Meanwhile.... It's 99%+ fossil fuel vehicles out there.
Report Spam   Logged
aDjUsToR
Part-Of-The-Furniture Member
*
Posts: 882


« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2017, 09:50:48 am »

Electric planes and ships? Nope.
Report Spam   Logged
Kiwithrottlejockey
Admin Staff
XNC2 GOD
*
Posts: 32223


Having fun in the hills!


« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2017, 09:51:18 am »


Presumably your “fuck you” attitude towards future generations means you don't have any children and grandchildren?

Or if you do have children and grandchildren, it means you are displaying your narcissistic, selfish, fuck-you traits towards your offspring and their offspring.

Just so long as you do okay out of things, fuck the following generations, eh?

What a nasty, nasty person you are.
Report Spam   Logged

If you aren't living life on the edge, you're taking up too much space! 
aDjUsToR
Part-Of-The-Furniture Member
*
Posts: 882


« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2017, 11:55:30 am »

Nah it's the loony left who are giving the poor and developing nations the big fuck you with demented pipe dreams of running current civilisation on piss poor and expensive wind and solar. Some even fully know this will kill millions but feel an imaginary force will be avenging those nasty cockroach humans for their sins against the lefty fantasy of utopia.
Report Spam   Logged
Kiwithrottlejockey
Admin Staff
XNC2 GOD
*
Posts: 32223


Having fun in the hills!


« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2017, 11:59:27 am »

Nah it's the loony left who are giving the poor and developing nations the big fuck you with demented pipe dreams of running current civilisation on piss poor and expensive wind and solar. Some even fully know this will kill millions but feel an imaginary force will be avenging those nasty cockroach humans for their sins against the lefty fantasy of utopia.


Yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science” yadda yadda yadda “fake science”....and so on for ever and ever amen....
Report Spam   Logged

If you aren't living life on the edge, you're taking up too much space! 
aDjUsToR
Part-Of-The-Furniture Member
*
Posts: 882


« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2017, 12:28:11 pm »

The green left utopia fantasy is killing jobs, killing the elderly in countries that have extreme cold or hot climates and killing hope of a modern life for the two billion plus people in the world who still live in medieval conditions of sickness and poverty.
Report Spam   Logged
Kiwithrottlejockey
Admin Staff
XNC2 GOD
*
Posts: 32223


Having fun in the hills!


« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2017, 12:56:19 pm »


My mate in Gisborne has been off the national grid since just before I moved from Gisborne to Wairarapa in 1998.

He generates all his own power from a mixture of solar, wind and hydro energy and has been doing so for almost twenty years.

So shove that up your clacker, dark-ages, selfish, polluting, “fuck the next generations” moron.
Report Spam   Logged

If you aren't living life on the edge, you're taking up too much space! 
aDjUsToR
Part-Of-The-Furniture Member
*
Posts: 882


« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2017, 11:29:25 am »

"GM fortells the end of petrol & diesel powered vehicles"

Yes and BP used to put solar panels on top of it's petrol stations. Never believe corporate greenwash. They only care about money.
Report Spam   Logged

Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Open XNC2 Smileys
Bookmark this site! | Upgrade This Forum
SMF For Free - Create your own Forum


Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy
Page created in 0.08 seconds with 15 queries.