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Vodafone vs Telecom

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ssweetpea
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« on: May 06, 2009, 10:12:18 am »

Vodafone goes to court alleging Telecom network interference
5:57PM Friday May 01, 2009

Photo / Martin SykesVodafone is off to court to protest at Telecom's new XT mobile network, in the belief it is the source of interference on the Vodafone network.

Vodafone said it had begun the legal action following a significant rise in the number of customer complaints about interference on its network.

Testing showed serious interference to Vodafone's network caused by Telecom's network, which was still under construction.

Telecom said it would vigorously resist the request for an injunction.

"This is a piece of aggressive behaviour that betrays Vodafone's insecurities about competition from Telecom's new XT mobile network, just 13 days away from the launch," said Telecom chief executive Paul Reynolds.

Telecom said the Ministry for Economic Development had been investigating interference issues between the WCDMA technology used by Telecom and GSM technology used by Vodafone.

It said a letter from the ministry on April 9 said Telecom's WCDMA transmitters meet emission limits specified on spectrum licences.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10569875

So who is trespassing on whose network? Either someone is operation out of their allocated frequencies or Vodafone are using their own network overloading problems as grounds to try and delay Telecom's XT rollout. Telecom's equipment has be working for 5 months. Vodaphone has been having problems according to them since January.

What do you reckon? The court case starts today.

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« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2009, 10:31:13 am »

The guy from the communications support company (I forget the name of the company) has said theres no doubt Vodaphone is recieving interference from something - however if it is telecom or not - will never be clear.

At the end of the day - dont matter whos doing what - mobile users will end up paying out hundreds of thousands for this case alone.

Neither company has great service or delivery - on average I recieve repeated texts and phone messages 3 times a week - on both systems.  Both of them are shit and overcharge imo.
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« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2009, 11:50:22 am »

Telecom 'knew of XT interference'

The accelerated launch timetable of its new mobile network was a Telecom "gamble" to strong-arm its way into an advantageous position, according to Vodafone.

Both of New Zealand's major telecommunications companies are in the Auckland High Court today in a stoush over the launch of Telecom's new XT mobile phone network which Vodafone is seeking an injunction to stop.

 Vodafone, represented by Julian Miles QC and Allison Ferguson of Wilson Harle, told Justice Vernon that Telecom knew "rogue signals" from its new network were "inevitable" and knew they interfered with Vodafone's network.

 Miles said bringing forward the launch date from June 2009 to next week, along with a concerted advertising campaign, was a deliberate attempt to capitalise on this.

"They can claim to be a superior service at the same time they are degrading their principle competitors' [Vodafone] network," said Miles.

Further, Miles told the court that since the XT network is currently only operating at 20 percent power, when it officially launches and ramps up to full power, the interference will become much worse.

Vodafone is claiming this would be dangerous because its network carries the emergency services and district health boards communications.

Miles said Vodafone was willing to carry customers already on Telecom's XT network for the duration of the injunction - a statement that drew chuckles from the public gallery.

Much of the initial proceedings were spent discussing the highly technical nature of the issue.

The Radio Communications Act splits the radio spectrum - on which telecommunications services are broadcast - into parcels and gives the rights to those frequencies to companies like Vodafone and Telecom.

Telecom's new network occupies a neighbouring frequency of Vodafone's existing network, and Vodafone is claiming Telecom's transmissions are leaking into their network, causing interference.

Vodafone claims it discovered interference to its networks in January this year, and since then has suffered a large increase in customers cancelling their connections.

It wants an injunction to stop Telecom from transmitting on its new network - essentially switching it off - as well as damages, interest and costs.  The injunction would keep Telecom's network offline until it could demonstrate to Vodafone's satisfaction that the interference issues had been fixed.

Telecom has agreed to fit filters to its own cellsites if these are required to reduce interference. But there appears to be no agreement as to who would bear the cost.

Telecom group general counsel Tristan Gilbertson claimed in an email to his Vodafone counterpart last Friday that engineers from both companies had agreed the issue could not be resolved until Vodafone rectified its own head amplifiers, which are attached to cellphone towers to pick up signals from phones.

Chief executive Paul Reynolds also said on Friday that Telecom would vigorously resist the request for an injunction, querying the timing of the court action, which came 13 days before the launch of XT.

Telecom released a Ministry of Economic Development review into the matter concluding Telecom was not violating the Radio Communications Act because it did not specifically require telcos to ensure all of their transmissions remained strictly within their allotted frequencies. However, it noted alternative interpretations of the act were possible.

The case continues.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/telecoms-it-media/2388714/Telecom-knew-of-XT-interference-Vodafone
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Kiwithrottlejockey
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« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2009, 12:51:15 am »


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« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2009, 01:14:08 am »

My employer changed to Vodafone about 18 months ago.  What a huge mistake. 

The coverage area - if you are not in a city centre is crap.  Given many of us in the smaller offices are on the road out in the rurals, it doesn't help when most of the time you can't get coverage let alone 3G.  We were all provided handsfree headsets so we could talk on the phone while driving - however as soon as you leave a town, you drop your call. 

A prime example was arriving back in the office nearly 2 hours late one day.  I was answering calls on the road and once I left a town, I would lose the call.  I would then have to pull over at the next town to finish off the phone call.

I also noticed that places where I was able to use my previous Telecom phone, had no Vodafone coverage.  I went and purchased a personal telecom phone so if I need to make a call outside Vodafone coverage, I 90% of the time can get coverage with my telecom handset.

I've got 3G internet connection for my lap top, so I could sit in my car and check e-mails etc between meetings.  But I can only get decent coverage in a main town - and even then it's prone to drop out and randomly disconnecting.

I remember when Vodafone (then Bell South) first came onto the scene in the mid 90s.  It was a far superior service to Telecom.  I had to wait a couple of years for my Telecom using friends to be able to text.

To me, it sounds like Vodafone has  been too comfortable for too long - only making small improvements to their network.  Now Telecom is FINALLY upping it's game, Vodafone can't hack it.
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« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2009, 08:50:53 am »

Gosh that surprises me Beaker.

I find Voda have a way better coverage than telecom - specially out our way.

I see this morning Telecom have said they will move their new network further up the band so they arnt affecting Vodas clients.
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« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2009, 09:47:27 am »

All my telegeek contacts have nothing to do with the cell phone network other than having to have a cell phone and arranging emergancy repairs to cell site power supplies in storms.

I have found the same thing Beaker only I haven't had a vodaphone mobile to compare with.

I do know that when ever I go over to the GB bach on Rangitoto that for Vodafone coverage you go half way round to the next bach an out on to the rocks to get a weak signal or stand in the middle of the bridge to Motutapu. For Telecom you can text from the top bunk on the south end of the verander or for speech you go two trees around to the all tide ramp (the opposite direction than Vodaphone). For good coverage I have to walk around to Islington Bay, the summit of Rangitoto, the ridge on Motutapu or the mouth of the Gap at low tide, that seems to apply to Vodaphone as well except Issy Bay can be a little dodgy for them.

In that general location Telecom's coverage seems to be a little bit better than Vodafone but as there is no way of recharging flat phones extensive testing just hasn't been done. One of the ideas behind going over there is to be out of cell phone coverage anyway. If there was still a pay phone at Issy Bay I would use that instead to get Mr sp to meet us off the ferry.
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Kiwithrottlejockey
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« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2009, 10:24:34 am »

My employer changed to Vodafone about 18 months ago.  What a huge mistake. 


DITTO....my employer also switched locomotive engineers to Vodafone at the beginning of this year. We rely on the mobile phone network for a lot of stuff in my job and if the radio communications system goes down, then the mobile phones are a backup to stay in contact with train control. However, we have discovered that in many places away from towns and cities where we previously had coverage with Telecom Mobile, now with Vodafone we have no service. A classic example is in Lucernes Gully up in the foothills of the Rimutaka Ranges on the eastern side of the Rimutaka Tunnel. With Telecom Mobile we had continuous coverage all the way up to the tunnel portal. With Vodafone, coverage cuts out about 2½ kilometres before the tunnel. Which means that if we have an emergency in the tunnel and need to drift a train out of the tunnel to the Wairarapa end and the radio system has gone down (which it sometimes does), then we are fucked! Plus, the amount of spam text messages from Vodafone is mindboggling. We never used to get garbage texts from Telecom.
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« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2009, 03:27:06 pm »

We got so annoyed with Vodafone coverage that we asked for a coverage map.  I basically meant over 50% of the area I cover (Taranaki) has either a weak or no signal.  Now Telecom wasn't perfect, but I know up the Whangamomona Valley, I could get a weak Telecom signal on the top of some of the saddles.  With Vodafone - I have to drive back to Toko to get a useable signal.

You also get major drop out of the Vodafone network on the Foxton straights... and that is a major state highway!

And to think - travelling in Australia, I was able to get vodafone coverage in the Bass Straight of all places  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2009, 03:47:30 pm »

The coverage at sp3 school is far from good. Apparantly they can get some coverage in two blocks and admin with telecom but with Vodaphone the only coverage is at admin. This is in the middle of an urban area all be it on the side of a hill.

Not a whole heap of flat land this side of the 'Shore.
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« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2009, 08:18:52 pm »

Daughters best friend lives in West Melton and there is one corner of the upstairs bathroom where there is any mobile phone coverage on either network.  It's hilarious at parties watching all the teens cramming in the bathroom trying to get their phone up near the roof just to the left of the window - it's a very specific spot. 

There are cell phone towers all over the plains, but for some reason that is a dead spot.

Here there is a tower about 100 - 150 metres from my house yet my phone will regularly drop the signal while in the dining room which would be the room with the most direct path.
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« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2009, 09:07:09 pm »

in newtown where i am Vodafone signals are almost non existant unless you walk around outside ...

no problems with Telecom
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« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2009, 09:07:38 pm »

Telecom delays XT launch after Vodafone settlement


Vodafone and Telecom have reached a settlement in their mobile broadband stoush after their first day in court.

Telecom has agreed to put off the launch of its new XT Network until "the end of May," says spokesman Mark Watts.

The settlement follows the telcos facing off in Auckland High Court yesterday after Vodafone attempted to block the new 850MHz 3G network, alleging that it was causing serious interference to customers on its own network.

Both companies were also negotiating behind closed doors as the Vodafone injunction case was heard in court.

The result is that Telecom says will fast-track the installation of network filters on its transmitters, which will work towards resolve the interference issues Vodafone claimed its customers were suffering.

Watts was unsure how many filters were yet to be installed and how long the process would take.

Under the agreement, Vodafone will discontinue injunction proceedings.

Court action

In court, the arguments from both sides hinged on a technical examination of radio transmission and a dissection of legislation and regulations governing the mobile operators.

In a hearing presided over by Justice Geoffrey Venning, Vodafone's lawyer Julian Miles, QC, said the company sought to delay the planned launch of Telecom's network until it had sorted out serious interference problems experienced by Vodafone customers.

Mr Miles said the problems started when the XT Network began operating earlier this year. Both parties agree some "spilling" of transmission signals outside of an allotted mobile frequency is normal - it is the extent of the spillage that is in question.

Mr Miles described Telecom's strategy to run a high-profile advertising campaign while degrading its rival's network as a "gamble" which was commercially "utterly unacceptable".

Vodafone said that since the XT Network went live its customers had experienced an increased number of dropped or poor-quality calls.

Mr Miles said Vodafone had had a 31 per cent increase in complaints about network coverage and more than 300 people leaving for Telecom as a result of the network interference.

Representing Telecom, Pheroze Jagose described Vodafone as the "comfortable incumbent", saying Telecom was operating within the boundaries of its radio spectrum licence.

Mr Jagose said there was no way to check the problems claimed by Vodafone were solely Telecom's fault.

He said any interference issues needed to be addressed by both the transmitter, in this case Telecom, as well as the receiving network.

Mr Jagose said the transmission filters suggested by Vodafone as a solution would reduce coverage rather than interference.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10570881
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« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2009, 08:46:57 am »

Daughters best friend lives in West Melton and there is one corner of the upstairs bathroom where there is any mobile phone coverage on either network.  It's hilarious at parties watching all the teens cramming in the bathroom trying to get their phone up near the roof just to the left of the window - it's a very specific spot. 

There are cell phone towers all over the plains, but for some reason that is a dead spot.

Here there is a tower about 100 - 150 metres from my house yet my phone will regularly drop the signal while in the dining room which would be the room with the most direct path.

If you live right near a tower, apparently the signal is crap as it fans out and misses what is right below it.

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