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General Category => General Forum => Topic started by: Kiwithrottlejockey on February 19, 2019, 04:30:40 pm

Title: Europe tells Trump's America to “go fuck yourself”…
Post by: Kiwithrottlejockey on February 19, 2019, 04:30:40 pm

from The New York Times…

Europe to Mike Pence: No, Thank You

The Trump administration manages to turn Germans into Gaullists,
ready to flirt with Russia and contemplate strategic independence.

By ROGER COHEN | Monday, February 18, 2019

(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/02/18/opinion/18cohenNew/18cohenNew-jumbo.jpg) (https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/02/18/opinion/18cohenNew/18cohenNew-superJumbo.jpg)
German Chancellor Angela Merkel speaking at the Munich Security Conference. — Photograph: Florian Gaertner/Photothek/via Getty Images.

MUNICH — A French ambassador observed to me that, “The Trump Administration has achieved the extraordinary feat of turning the Germans into Gaullists.”

Once the most devoted member of the Atlantic alliance, an insulted Germany has stiffened, discovering its inner Russian flirt and a touch of De Gaulle's strategic independence.

Donald Trump has made Angela Merkel mad. I got to know her during my assignment in Berlin two decades ago and have never seen her as animated as during her speech here at the Munich Security Conference. The shackles were off. She was not above wagging a Gaullist finger at Washington.

Eyes glittering with impish mockery, she asked whether withdrawing American troops from Syria was really the best way to confront Iran; whether containing Iran was really served by trashing “the only existing agreement” — the European-supported nuclear deal abandoned by Trump; and how German cars are really a threat to American national security, as Trump's Commerce Department has suggested, when the BMW plant in South Carolina is the company's biggest.

“Going on one's own,” Merkel suggested, makes no sense in a world demanding multilateral solutions. In strategic terms, she said, “Europe cannot have an interest in breaking our relationship with Russia,” even if her outrage at Russia's annexation of Crimea (“a violation of international law”) and fomenting of violence in eastern Ukraine was clear. Some polls have suggested that more Germans trust Vladimir Putin's Russia than Trump's United States.

Trump did not figure in her speech but plenty of Trump choreography surrounded it. Ivanka Trump sat below the podium. As the crowd rose in unison to give Merkel a standing ovation, the president's daughter remained seated. She was on her feet, however, to greet Vice President Mike Pence, who followed Merkel, giving him a little kiss on his cheek. I wondered how Pence would do penance for this.

As it was, Pence went on the attack. He inflicted on the audience an extraordinary exercise in obsequiousness, arrogance and mawkishness: obsequiousness toward President Trump, whose name seemed to appear in every other sentence as some God-given fount of wisdom; arrogance toward the Europeans who were admonished, as vassals, to tear up the multilateral Iran nuclear deal, which is enshrined through a United Nations resolution in international law; and mawkishness over a visit to Auschwitz last week that was used to convey a message to Europeans that if they did not obey American orders on Iran they are de facto anti-Semites.

(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/02/18/opinion/18cohen2web/merlin_150765627_676c6ed3-0cb8-49de-a237-5f65708b5555-jumbo.jpg) (https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/02/18/opinion/18cohen2web/merlin_150765627_676c6ed3-0cb8-49de-a237-5f65708b5555-superJumbo.jpg)
American Vice President Mike Pence made his case for “America First” at the conference. — Photograph: Matthias Schrader/Associated Press.

The overall effect was B-movie bizarre and offensive, a careful-what-you-wish-for warning to any Democrat tempted by impeachment of Trump. Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the House, sat in the front row with a Delphic smile. Pence did acknowledge her, but only just.

The vice president's big line — “The time has come for our European partners to withdraw from the Iran nuclear deal” — met hostility. His speech ended not with a bang but a whimper. Ivanka Trump and her husband Jared Kushner leapt to their feet in the near silence. Pence had two fans in Europe. He did not take questions, unlike Merkel and the Russian foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov.

The Munich Security Conference is rowing against the tide. Its raison d'être is trans-Atlantic cooperation, albeit with some post-Cold War add-ons like China's presence. To sense animus to America's vice president in this temple to Western unity is to measure how effectively Trump has taken a sledgehammer to America's European alliances — abandoning shared strategy (on Iran, climate change, trade, Israel-Palestine, etc.), and making a mockery of shared values through his embrace of autocrats from Pyongyang to Riyadh. Words like “dialogue” and “cooperation” are not part of Trump's conception of alliances. The alliances therefore erode.

Europeans are not where Lavrov and Russia want them to be — thirsting to build a “shared European house” from Lisbon to Vladivostok, to the exclusion of NATO. They are, however, wondering how best to project the free world's values now that its leader has gone AWOL; thinking hard about how to reinforce European defense (as the United States exits the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty in response to Russia's breaches of it but with no alternative plan discussed with those most vulnerable to Russian attack — European allies); and concluding that, whatever happens, America will not be back in the same form.

There is a strategic vacuum. Vacuums are dangerous. Yang Jiechi, a member of the Chinese Politburo, extolled the virtues of multilateralism, coordination, cooperation and the rule of law while telling America to give “fewer lectures.” This might have comforted Europeans if he had not also extolled China's human rights record and the way ethnic groups in China work together in “beautiful harmony” (I'm awaiting the Uighur response.)

This is not the new Chinese world Europeans want to embrace. Nor is the world of Lavrov's cynicism attractive; nor Trump's diktats. It's not 1945 again but it is the moment for Europe to reassert itself in the name of values it knows are not abstract, but the guarantors of human dignity and freedom.


Roger Cohen (https://www.nytimes.com/by/roger-cohen) joined The New York Times in 1990. He was a foreign correspondent for more than a decade before becoming acting foreign editor on September 11, 2001, and foreign editor six months later. Since 2004, he has written a column for The International New York Times, formerly known as The International Herald Tribune. In 2009 he was named a columnist of The New York Times. His columns appear every Wednesday and Saturday. Mr. Cohen has written Hearts Grown Brutal: Sagas of Sarajevo (https://www.amazon.com/dp/0679452435), an account of the wars of Yugoslavia's destruction, and Soldiers and Slaves: American POWs Trapped by the Nazis' Final Gamble (https://www.amazon.com/dp/037541410X). He has also co-written a biography of General H. Norman Schwarzkopf, In the Eye of the Storm: The Life of General H. Norman Schwarzkopf (https://www.amazon.com/dp/8181580230). His family memoir, The Girl From Human Street: Ghosts of Memory in a Jewish Family (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0182QA5E4), was published in January 2015. Raised in South Africa and England, he is a naturalized American. Follow him on Twitter (https://twitter.com/nytimescohen).


Related to this topic:

 • Rift Between Trump and Europe Is Now Open and Angry (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/17/world/europe/trump-international-relations-munich.html)

 • Merkel Rejects U.S. Demands That Europe Pull Out of Iran Nuclear Deal (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/world/europe/merkel-speech-munich.html)

 • Among European Allies, Americans Offer Competing Visions (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/world/europe/mike-pence-joe-biden.html)

 • What Is the Munich Security Conference, and Why Does It Matter? (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/15/world/europe/munich-security-conference.html)

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/18/opinion/mike-pence-munich.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/18/opinion/mike-pence-munich.html)

Title: Re: Europe tells Trump's America to “go fuck yourself”…
Post by: Kiwithrottlejockey on February 19, 2019, 05:56:53 pm

from The Washington Post…

European leaders hit at Trump's demands that
they take back ex-ISIS citizens from Syria

Trump threatened E.U. allies that they would face terrorist attacks
unless they took swift action to repatriate their citizens.

By MICHAEL BIRNBAUM | 12:40PM EST — Monday, February 18, 2019

(https://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_999w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2019/02/18/Foreign/Images/AFP_1DK0WM.jpg) (https://www.washingtonpost.com/rw/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2019/02/18/Foreign/Images/AFP_1DK0WM.jpg)
A veiled woman walks with her child at a camp in northeastern Syria on Sunday. — Photograph: Bulent Kilic/Agence France-Presse/Getty Images.

BRUSSELS — European leaders expressed skepticism on Monday about their willingness to cooperate with a request by President Trump to bring home citizens who went to fight with the Islamic State, underlining a security dilemma as the U.S. military prepares to pull out of Syria following the collapse of the group's self-declared caliphate.

Many European nations have been content to leave citizens who may sympathize with the Islamic State in Syria, gambling that their societies will be safer if radicalized citizens are kept far from their borders. But the Kurdish fighters who have kept many of the former caliphate residents under lock and key worry that with the U.S. pullout (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/us-military-announces-start-of-syria-troop-withdrawal/2019/01/11/77455bda-1585-11e9-90a8-136fa44b80ba_story.html), they may need to shift resources elsewhere, disbanding camps and allowing the residents to disperse (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/world/syria/isis-prisoners).

Trump over the weekend threatened E.U. allies on Twitter (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1096980408401625088) that if they did not repatriate their citizens, the United States would simply let them go, warning that Europe could face a surge in terrorist attacks (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1096982979107278850) as a result.

But his tactic sparked anger at a Monday gathering of E.U. foreign ministers, where leaders said that they would make no plans under threat from Washington and that counterterrorism policy shouldn't be made by tweet.

“It is surely not as easy as imagined in America,” said German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas, who said Germany is discussing the issue with France, Britain and other European countries. The U.S. request is “difficult to implement” right now, he said, because Germany cannot yet guarantee that all returning fighters would be taken into custody immediately while cases were prepared against them.

Hundreds of captured Islamic State fighters have been imprisoned by Kurdish forces in the parts of northeast Syria that the Kurds control with U.S. support. Thousands more women and children who lived in the caliphate but did not necessarily take part in the fighting are living under tight control inside ­Kurdish-run camps. Many of them are European citizens.

“There is a problem. We are aware of that in Europe,” Luxembourg Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn said. “If we want to find a reasonable solution, then we have to discuss this, not send tweets back and forth. That doesn't make sense.”

Among the challenges E.U. nations face is that it is often difficult to gather evidence of participation in violence by their citizens in the Islamic State, forcing prosecutors to try them on lesser charges that carry penalties of only a few years in prison. Politicians are hesitant to take the risk of one of the returnees plotting an attack.

But some security services believe that it would be safer to have potentially dangerous citizens inside their home countries, where they can more easily be monitored, than to have them float free in the tumult of the Middle East, analysts say.

“You will have a security problem if you leave them out there,” said Rik Coolsaet, a terrorism expert at the Egmont Institute, a Brussels-based think tank. “You can follow them here, and you can't follow them there.”

France has started planning how to bring back its more than 100 fighters (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/france-to-take-back-isis-fighters-reversing-policy-in-wake-of-us-withdrawal-from-syria/2019/02/01/5d3de5a8-2648-11e9-b5b4-1d18dfb7b084_story.html) from the camps, along with women and children. Other countries are considering what to do.

The political challenge extends beyond the adults who may still sympathize with the aims of the Islamic State. Many of them started families while living in the caliphate, and Kurdish authorities estimate that at least 1,300 children, many of them younger than 6, are inside their camps (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/their-parents-joined-isis-they-were-raised-in-the-caliphate-can-they-come-home/2019/02/15/38a783a2-142d-11e9-ab79-30cd4f7926f2_story.html). European countries have hesitated about their obligations to those children, and several are debating whether bringing the children home without their parents would be a violation of the children's rights.

In Belgium, the government is appealing a court order to bring back six children ages 7 and under, along with their two Belgian mothers. The appeal is scheduled for Wednesday.

“You cannot say that a child of 8 months is dangerous,” said Walter Damen, attorney for the children and their mothers. “You cannot say that a child of 8 months is being indoctrinated by the Islamic State.”


Quentin Ariès contributed to this report.

Michael Birnbaum (https://www.washingtonpost.com/people/michael-birnbaum) is the Brussels bureau chief for The Washington Post. He previously served as the bureau chief in Moscow and in Berlin, and was an education reporter. He has covered the conflict in Ukraine, the Egyptian revolution, the fall of Libyan leader Moammar Gaddafi and the Arab Spring elsewhere in the Middle East. He has also worked at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Birnbaum has a degree in German history from Yale University and he speaks French, German, some Russian, some Latvian. He grew up in Chicago.


Related to this topic:

 • Their parents joined ISIS. They were raised in the caliphate. Can they come home? (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/their-parents-joined-isis-they-were-raised-in-the-caliphate-can-they-come-home/2019/02/15/38a783a2-142d-11e9-ab79-30cd4f7926f2_story.html)

 • ‘All I want to do is come home,’ says pregnant British teen who joined ISIS in Syria (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/british-teen-who-joined-isis-now-just-wants-to-come-home/2019/02/14/6636e005-cf21-41a5-8720-d3e6cedd95cf_story.html)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/european-leaders-hit-at-trumps-demands-that-they-take-back-ex-isis-citizens-from-syria/2019/02/18/62a32794-338e-11e9-8375-e3dcf6b68558_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/european-leaders-hit-at-trumps-demands-that-they-take-back-ex-isis-citizens-from-syria/2019/02/18/62a32794-338e-11e9-8375-e3dcf6b68558_story.html)

Title: Re: Europe tells Trump's America to “go fuck yourself”…
Post by: Kiwithrottlejockey on February 19, 2019, 06:00:42 pm

Trump is rapidly becoming a “screeching nobody” in the eyes of Europeans.

He's too gutless to front up to European leaders face-to-face any more, instead hiding behind Pence and his stupid daughter.

He's so full of shit that people outside America don't take much notice of him any more.

And as America started the warmongering in Iraq which ultimately led to ISIS, let the SEPOs clean up their own mess.

Fuck 'em … they started it so let them deal with the consequences.

Title: Re: Europe tells Trump's America to “go fuck yourself”…
Post by: Im2Sexy4MyPants on February 19, 2019, 11:11:21 pm

they told trump to what?
your telling lies again

trumps too soft letting isis go back home

kill them all skin them and make them into a lamp shades

next, destroy Europe oh, that's right they are fucking themselves

ktj you should get a 10-foot giant dildo and go and fuck yourself :D

Title: Re: Europe tells Trump's America to “go fuck yourself”…
Post by: Kiwithrottlejockey on March 04, 2019, 08:01:42 pm

Here's a photograph of the meeting where Kim Jong-un played Donald J. Trump like a fiddle … yet again!!

(https://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_1111w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2019/03/03/Editorial-Opinion/Images/IC6STWR3DYI6TMIL6BNCFZ2YMU.jpg) (https://www.washingtonpost.com/rw/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2019/03/03/Editorial-Opinion/Images/IC6STWR3DYI6TMIL6BNCFZ2YMU.jpg)
President Donald J. Trump speaks during a meeting with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un on February 28 in Hanoi. — Photograph: Evan Vucci/Associated Press.

Title: Re: Europe tells Trump's America to “go fuck yourself”…
Post by: Im2Sexy4MyPants on March 05, 2019, 11:03:56 am
Kim Jong-un is so clever that his people are starving to death while he fiddles with himself ;D

Like most failed commie dictators Kim is a selfish little man who only cares about his own skin
he's supported worldwide by brainless idiots that never bothered learning the history of self-serving communist despots.

Yes, Trump walks away and communism burns while Kim fiddles with himself (http://www.smfboards.com/Smileys//smf/knuppel2.gif);D

Title: Re: Europe tells Trump's America to “go fuck yourself”…
Post by: Kiwithrottlejockey on March 05, 2019, 07:39:41 pm

Kim Jong-un is so clever that he gets to periodically play Donald J. Trump like a fiddle.

But wait, there's more ... President Xi also plays Donald J. Trump like a fiddle.

What a stupid dumbarse Donald J. Trump is.

Hilarious how two despot leaders are making the Prez of America look like a stupid dork, eh?